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Post by FLCeltsFan on Nov 27, 2018 15:23:22 GMT -5
I haven't been able to watch games but have listened to them so I'm not sure about what all went into the improved performance last night but one difference was that Brown missed the game and Smart started.
I know Brown has been struggling but have his struggles hurt the Celtics ability to play as a team like they did against the Pelicans? Would having Smart start help the team's toughness that has been lacking?
Like I said, I can't watch the games so I'd be interested in your take on this.
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Post by runrondo on Nov 27, 2018 19:56:41 GMT -5
I think it might be good since Brown would probably have a better idea of his role coming off the bench as opposed to playing with other better wings (Hayward, Tatum). Seems like he's struggling to fit in the most when in a lineup with our other starters and even missing the most open shots (just my impression). I know Brad was really repeating himself about having "courage" even when you're struggling which I somewhat take as a current weakness of Brown's since it seems like he can get inside is own head if he's not hitting his 3-pointers. If he's coming off the bench maybe he'd feel more free to attack, drive, and show some of his offensive range as opposed to being a fourth or fifth wheel in the starting lineup. Again, not entirely sure that would really solve anything or if Brown just needs to get his confidence back and a better feel for how to play basketball within the current group of talent we have.
Brad's been messing with the line-ups a lot so it'll be interesting to see what he finds works - luckily, I think he has a lot of guys who don't care if they get moved in and out of the starting lineup (Morris, Smart, Baynes, and even Hayward it seems). That's great to see.
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Post by Roadrunner on Nov 27, 2018 20:04:22 GMT -5
I like Smart as a better fit as 6th man, because he accepts and knows his role. I feel the improved performance was the blockade at the wings position. Also, I want Coach Stevens to get Horford away from playing the 5, and play the 4 which is his natural position.
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Post by TenTwentyFour on Nov 28, 2018 13:31:21 GMT -5
I think Smart fits the starting unit like a glove, and despite not being a scorer himself, actually solves a lot of the unit's (largely artificial) offensive problems...however contradictory that might sound. He is a support player, and sometimes the positive team effect from a good support player is greater than that from a redundant star with greater individual skills.
A few points:
1. Because he is not a scorer like Brown or Hayward, the scenario of having too many natural scorers on the floor, all stepping on each others toes, is avoided (Tatum, Mook, and Kyrie are more than enough offensive minded guys for one unit).
2. Unlike Brown, Smart can facilitate and direct plays (further enhances the games of our scoring leaders instead of dirupting their flow). Horford in particular, benefits from his pick and roll plays, and with Smart on second unit, they barely share any floor time. Also, Kyrie is less tired, as he doesn't have to direct plays every single time, and can now play off ball.
3. Takes defensive pressure off of Kyrie, by guarding the ball dominant guard of the opposing team. Kyrie is not a natural defender, and expands too much energy trying to catch up (seems like he really tries hard)...as he hinted himself, it might have been affecting his offensive game.
4. Smart's individual defensive skills are ineffective on the second unit, that plays poor team defense. While when on the first unit, good team defenders like Horford only magnify the effect of his individual defensive tlents.
5. Its more important to have your best individual defender neutralize a first unit opponent talent, than their backups.
6. Both Brown and Hayward have been struggling, and its going to be easier for them to find their offensive flow against the lesser talent of opponent's backups. Also takes off pressure off them to perform well from starting minutes (bad starts have been a point of criticism of the team).
8. Smart is our closest player to anything resembling Garnett-like grit and mental toughness. Having him start the game gives us more chance to prevent opponents from breaking our backs early in the game (been a problem all season).
I just feels like it all works out so much better in all these numerous ways...
If Stevens keeps this lineup for the next few games, we'll see if any of this holds any water.
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Post by jmost on Nov 28, 2018 19:42:08 GMT -5
Nice post TenTwentyFour. And as you say, we'll see if it holds any water. This Celtics team has been so up and down that we should be slow to conclude anything from one game. Various lineups have been both great and terrible from one night to the next. So far we've seen one strong game with Smart and Morris in the starting lineup and Brown and Hayward not. Too small a sample. I'm glad to see Brad tinkering though.
I'll add one thing. As someone who is not a Smart fan, and especially not a fan of his offensive game, anything that contributes to his shooting less is a good thing to me. Being on the floor with the team's best scorers might, just might, make him think a little harder before shooting it himself.
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Post by eja117 on Nov 29, 2018 17:34:51 GMT -5
I think Smart fits the starting unit like a glove, and despite not being a scorer himself, actually solves a lot of the unit's (largely artificial) offensive problems...however contradictory that might sound. He is a support player, and sometimes the positive team effect from a good support player is greater than that from a redundant star with greater individual skills. A few points: 1. Because he is not a scorer like Brown or Hayward, the scenario of having too many natural scorers on the floor, all stepping on each others toes, is avoided (Tatum, Mook, and Kyrie are more than enough offensive minded guys for one unit). 2. Unlike Brown, Smart can facilitate and direct plays (further enhances the games of our scoring leaders instead of dirupting their flow). Horford in particular, benefits from his pick and roll plays, and with Smart on second unit, they barely share any floor time. Also, Kyrie is less tired, as he doesn't have to direct plays every single time, and can now play off ball. 3. Takes defensive pressure off of Kyrie, by guarding the ball dominant guard of the opposing team. Kyrie is not a natural defender, and expands too much energy trying to catch up (seems like he really tries hard)...as he hinted himself, it might have been affecting his offensive game. 4. Smart's individual defensive skills are ineffective on the second unit, that plays poor team defense. While when on the first unit, good team defenders like Horford only magnify the effect of his individual defensive tlents. 5. Its more important to have your best individual defender neutralize a first unit opponent talent, than their backups. 6. Both Brown and Hayward have been struggling, and its going to be easier for them to find their offensive flow against the lesser talent of opponent's backups. Also takes off pressure off them to perform well from starting minutes (bad starts have been a point of criticism of the team). 8. Smart is our closest player to anything resembling Garnett-like grit and mental toughness. Having him start the game gives us more chance to prevent opponents from breaking our backs early in the game (been a problem all season). I just feels like it all works out so much better in all these numerous ways... If Stevens keeps this lineup for the next few games, we'll see if any of this holds any water. Damn. Convinced me |
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Post by eja117 on Nov 29, 2018 17:35:40 GMT -5
Sometimes I wonder why a team like the Warriors can play a bunch of all stars all at once and we can't but here we are
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Post by Roadrunner on Nov 29, 2018 19:16:05 GMT -5
Tentwentyfour, great to see new posters.
Undefined roles is a major issue with BOS. Brad green lighting the offense to every player is another issue. Shot selection is a third issue.
Back to the topic at hand, Smart knows his role (starter or 6th man), Jaylen has no idea.
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Post by jmost on Nov 29, 2018 21:05:58 GMT -5
Having been thrust prematurely into having to carry the team (along with Tatum) in last year's playoffs, Brown can't be blamed too much for not knowing where he fits in now that Irving and Hayward are back. It has to be hard to take a step back. Same with Rozier.
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Post by FLCeltsFan on Nov 30, 2018 12:16:03 GMT -5
I think Smart fits the starting unit like a glove, and despite not being a scorer himself, actually solves a lot of the unit's (largely artificial) offensive problems...however contradictory that might sound. He is a support player, and sometimes the positive team effect from a good support player is greater than that from a redundant star with greater individual skills. A few points: 1. Because he is not a scorer like Brown or Hayward, the scenario of having too many natural scorers on the floor, all stepping on each others toes, is avoided (Tatum, Mook, and Kyrie are more than enough offensive minded guys for one unit). 2. Unlike Brown, Smart can facilitate and direct plays (further enhances the games of our scoring leaders instead of dirupting their flow). Horford in particular, benefits from his pick and roll plays, and with Smart on second unit, they barely share any floor time. Also, Kyrie is less tired, as he doesn't have to direct plays every single time, and can now play off ball. 3. Takes defensive pressure off of Kyrie, by guarding the ball dominant guard of the opposing team. Kyrie is not a natural defender, and expands too much energy trying to catch up (seems like he really tries hard)...as he hinted himself, it might have been affecting his offensive game. 4. Smart's individual defensive skills are ineffective on the second unit, that plays poor team defense. While when on the first unit, good team defenders like Horford only magnify the effect of his individual defensive tlents. 5. Its more important to have your best individual defender neutralize a first unit opponent talent, than their backups. 6. Both Brown and Hayward have been struggling, and its going to be easier for them to find their offensive flow against the lesser talent of opponent's backups. Also takes off pressure off them to perform well from starting minutes (bad starts have been a point of criticism of the team). 8. Smart is our closest player to anything resembling Garnett-like grit and mental toughness. Having him start the game gives us more chance to prevent opponents from breaking our backs early in the game (been a problem all season). I just feels like it all works out so much better in all these numerous ways... If Stevens keeps this lineup for the next few games, well see if any of this holds any water. Excellent and well thought reply. I agree! I was happy to hear that Brad is considering keeping Smart with the starters. I really hope he does. |
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Post by FLCeltsFan on Nov 30, 2018 12:27:59 GMT -5
Sometimes I wonder why a team like the Warriors can play a bunch of all stars all at once and we can't but here we are I think it goes back to your players like Brown and Tatum being young and not having the confidence or knowing exactly where they fit. Also one of our all stars is recovering from a very serious injury and isn't 100% yet. That 2nd surgery set him back quite a bit. They are going to gel as Hayward improves and the young guys find their roles and confidence and then they will take off. |
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Post by Roadrunner on Nov 30, 2018 18:44:46 GMT -5
Having been thrust prematurely into having to carry the team (along with Tatum) in last year's playoffs, Brown can't be blamed too much for not knowing where he fits in now that Irving and Hayward are back. It has to be hard to take a step back. Same with Rozier. I wish Brown focused on either offense or defense. On defense, he just not as good this year. On offense, I think it is a trickle down effect (too many wings on the floor at the same time). |
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Post by TenTwentyFour on Dec 1, 2018 16:38:41 GMT -5
I wish Brown focused on either offense or defense. I think Jaylen's defense is going to be fine just like last year...he is probably just a bit frustrated atm, but some things in his offense need more attention from coaches for sure, because he doesn't seem to improve on them at all.
One thing that I've been trying to figure out since Celtics drafted him is what's wrong with his game above the rim. He is so athletic that it is obviously his greatest advantage over opponents, yet he mostly settles for layups when driving the lane or during fast breaks that are chased down by defenders. He only goes for dunks when he finds himself completely open at the rim or has an clear path to it, and as a result, his finishing potential is much worse than it should be, considering his physical gifts.
His jumps actually seem very flat when there are guards nearby or there is even minor contact, and we all know that he can jump very high. This is clearly not a strength issue, so I actually think it might be his gait/poor footwork habits. Whenever he is open and goes for a dunk he does this wired two tiny step gather first. It is like he can't jump at all without it.... So when defenders are nearby, this gather routine is taken away from him as he is forced into some handling move like a crossover or a eurostep instead. As a result he finishes these moves with a super weak horizontal jump (often off a wrong leg) that leaves him with no other option but to settle for a layup. Other scorers in this league with even a fraction of his athleticism prefer to finish strong, as its a much higher probability shot.
Whether this is really caused by bad footwork mechanics or not, it needs to be fixed/worked on asap if he is going to realize his scorer's potential. Without it, he is doomed to be stuck in the "three & d guy" niche, which is very replaceable in this league. |
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Post by jhvos7979 on Dec 11, 2018 10:46:18 GMT -5
Look like keeping the two Marcus in the starting lineup is the key ingredient to get this team going in right direction. This team needed an identity and both of these guys added to that formula perfectly. Plus, Brown/Hayward look more comfortable in the 2nd-unit which make this roster dangerous as they add more firepower when the starters go to the bench for rest.
I'm glad to see Brown starting to get in his groove especially the last 3 games. Hopefully Hayward can add more offense to his game so that 2nd-unit can be more potent beside his play making capabilities.
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Post by jmost on Dec 12, 2018 11:04:52 GMT -5
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