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Post by DERRENMATTS on Dec 8, 2005 3:55:08 GMT -5
With Paul Pierce and Ricky Davis, we have 2 guys who we can count on to score 20+ pts on any given night (and ain't it encouraging that both are shooting over 45%). We tend to struggle during games when we have trouble finding a 3rd guy to score when Pierce and Ricky are either on the bench or heavily guarded. This year, Blonut has been that 3rd guy, but who knows how much playing time he'll receive because of his lack of rebounding. At times Delonte or Raef step up to the plate and take some burden off of our two stars, but they are players who need to be set up to score points.
We need to find our 3rd scorer who'll consistently get us buckets with or without Pierce and Ricky on the court. Delonte and Raef will be more like role scorers--guys whose scoring fluctuates from game to game, depending on the flow of the game.
So who can we look to?
Big Al Jefferson. No, he's not going to be a consistent 3rd scorer right off the bat. But with consistent playing time and knowing what his role is, i.e. when he'll come into the game and how much PT he'll get, Jefferson can be that 3rd scoring presence. The team doesn't feed Jefferson nearly enough times in the post to get him in any type of rhythm. He's so often waiting for the entry pass into the post, having sealed his man on his behind, but our players aren't capable of delivering entry passes to him regularly.
With more touches, Jefferson will get much better in the post (its only conceivable that as he gets more comfortable and takes his time, he'll rush his shots less and score more efficiently). And when teams have to adjust to him and double the post, the outside game will open up. Pierce, Ricky, Delonte, and Raef will get shots on the perimeter, or opportunities to score off of cuts into the lanes.
Jefferson has enough skills to be our 3rd scorer this year. He's not going to be asked to be our go to guy, or even our 2nd scorer. Being the 3rd scorer allows him to garner less pressure from the defense, but he'll make a big difference in terms of keeping the team from going into scoring droughts.
Doc is going to have to let Jefferson play more, despite giving up some points on defense. This year must be used to develop Jefferson. With Perkins getting more playing time, the defense will be upgraded and playing Jefferson alongside Perkins will cover some of Big Al's deficiencies.
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Post by The Eye of the Q is upon you! on Dec 8, 2005 8:31:31 GMT -5
We got a lot of options here as the third scorer, however 5 guys out there must commit to playing defense at the same time. The Celtics will get better, with more efforts like last night.
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Post by FLCeltsFan on Dec 8, 2005 13:30:33 GMT -5
Several teams who are successful this year have 4 or 5 players averaging in double figures. While we have two scorers who are pretty much going to get theirs every night and don't need 5 double figure scorers, it sure would be nice to have them since if Ricky and PP play fewer minutes as the year goes by we will need scoring from other sources. Al can score double figures every night and Blount is capable of it also (if he isn't pouting over something or other). Raef and Delonte are capable of double figure games. This slump for Raef is unusual and he should find his touch eventually. I remember when Ainge was playing he had a pretty bad slump one year and he just kept shooting until he got out of it.
We have several players who could all emerge as a consistent 3rd scorer and it is possible that more than one of them will step up. The longer this team plays together, the better they are going to get.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Dec 8, 2005 18:11:17 GMT -5
While we do have guys who can score in double digits, I'm looking for a guy who can give it to us regularly. With Raef and Delonte, you can't ask them to provide scoring when Pierce and Ricky aren't on the floor, or if they are being guarded tightly. Both of them score in the flow of the game. Doc can't say to Raef, "hey, I need you to go in the post and get me a bucket". Raef is just not that type of scorer. Neither is Delonte (at least not this year).
By saying a 3rd scorer, I mean a guy who we can give the ball to and ask to get us points. While I don't advocate going one on one, when Pierce and Ricky need help, it'll truly help us to have that 3rd scorer to give the ball to. Blount has been able to be that guy for us, but I just don't know what to think of the guy. Sometimes, I just want him off the team, and sometimes, his scoring is so valuable that I wonder where we'd be without him.
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Post by FLCeltsFan on Dec 8, 2005 19:46:45 GMT -5
I believe that is what Al is developing into. He isn't there yet and is still a bit inconsistent, but so are his minutes. But I think in the not so distant future, Al will be that 3rd scorer on a regular basis.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Dec 8, 2005 20:29:50 GMT -5
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Hopefully, Big Al's performance the past 2 games are a sign of good things to come. 12 and 10 in twenty minutes, and 16 and 9 in twenty one minutes indicate that he is turning a leaf in his development.
The team needs to feed the ball into Jefferson more. I can't count how many times a game Al is just waiting for the ball in the post.
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Post by esco33 on Dec 9, 2005 9:46:42 GMT -5
I agree that our third scorer while Pierce and Ricky are on the floor can be Delonte. Lately, he has looked for his shot a little more. He can hit the open 18 footer, or 3 pointer. I have liked what I have seen from him lately. He can be a good scoring guard I believe. When Pierce and Ricky are being doubled or D'd up, Delonte has the ability to shoot over the defender or juke his way to the basket for a layup or dunk, or pass.
But derren, if you are asking about someone who can create their own offense when Pierce and Ricky are not on the floor, we only have 2 viable options I think, and one is well...inconsistent...Big Al and Blunt. Blunt can score in the post pretty well at times. But not ALL the time. We all know Blunts issues. Big Al on the other hand has the POTENTIAL to be that go-to guy in the post, but I really feel like I have said all season that next year will be his breakout year.
Next year he will be a starter I believe and put up some decent numbers. Maybe like 15 and 8 or something like that. I still think this year may not be his year yet to put up numbers like that. I do believe however that he can be a real offensive threat off of the bench playing together with Blunt, (high and low) Similar to Perk and Raef.
For the starters Delonte as third scorer.
For off of the bench, Big Al and Blunt.
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Post by FLCeltsFan on Dec 9, 2005 9:58:50 GMT -5
We shouldn't count Raef out as a third option either. He is a very good shooter. Most players hit a slump at some time or other and I believe he will come out of his before too long. His dead eye shooting from the 3 point line was what sparked the win over the Rockets at home. If he can shake this slump and get his touch back he can average double figures every game on the inside outside game with PP, Perk and Ricky penetrating and kicking out to Raef for open shots. His slump has hurt us lately because when the ball gets kicked out, he hasn't hit those shots but I believe they will start falling again to give us that option.
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Post by esco33 on Dec 9, 2005 10:12:55 GMT -5
I agree that Raef can be a third option as well. I just see him getting less minutes as Big Al improves and gets more PT. Raef is probably our best pure shooter, and could easily average 10-12 points a game with enough shots (and when he is not slumping). I just see the point guard depth chart a lot different than the power forward spot. Nobody really is threatening Delonte's playing time (other than himself) Dickau is not getting any PT only in a "closing" role. Greene is still green. It doesn't look like he is getting any consistent playing time as well. Delonte looks like the guy at the point guard spot.
Maybe this theory is far fetched, but I just think at this point Delonte has the better shot at being that third scorer. I am not counting out Raef by any stretch, but just think that Delonte has the better shot.
Ideally, all 5 of our starters could average double figures, making our starting unit even more potent.
Defense is the area, although, that we all know that they need to improve anyway.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Dec 9, 2005 10:31:08 GMT -5
Raef can't be our 3rd scorer because we can't count on him to give us points when we need it.
Raef has to be set up for his points. We can't just hand him the ball and ask him to score.
That's what I'm getting at when I say a consistent 3rd scorer.
This also goes for Delonte. At this time, he doesn't have the ability to consistently be that 3rd scorer. If Pierce and Ricky are heavily guarded, he won't be able to consistently get his own shot by himself.
Raef and Delonte are role scorers whose points come in the flow of the game. Some games they will put up a lot of points, other games, they may not.
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Post by esco33 on Dec 9, 2005 10:46:37 GMT -5
I disagree Derren. You don't necessarily have to be the type of player to create your own shot to be an efficient scorer. I know what you are trying to say, I think. You are talking about someone who you can give the ball to to get their own shot when you need a basket, other than Paul or Ricky, and I agree that Big Al is the logical choice to potentially be able to do that on a consistent basis.
Although I disagree in that Delonte or possibly Raef, with Delonte being first, can be solid third scorer meaning that they can be the third option on the team after Pierce and Ricky. Just because Delonte can't penetrate or create his own shot at will doesn't mean that he cannot be a good third option. He can shoot the basketball, and he is tall enough to do it over any or every point guard in the league. He also protects the ball well when taking it to the basket. He hardly ever get stripped, any many times dunks over his opponents. I think he can very well be a third option, just when Pierce and Ricky are both on the floor with him (I think that is where you are getting at).
Look at the Detroit Pistons. Many of their players cannot get off their own shots, but are efficient scorers. Billups is probably one of the few on that team other than Rasheed. Rip Hamilton has a good mid-range game but doesn't have great handles where he can tak it to the basket any time he wants too. Same thing goes for Peja in Sacto, but he is one of the better shooter/scorers in the NBA.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Dec 9, 2005 14:16:58 GMT -5
Ok, say that Pierce is foul trouble and is sitting on the bench. Ricky is now the focal point of the defense because he's the only legitimate scoring threat who can really hurt them. Every time Ricky tries to come around the curl, a defender is there. Every time he posts up, a double team forces him to dribble out. We need a 3rd scorer to take some pressure off of Ricky. At this point, Delonte isn't a guy who can take pressure off of Ricky. He may be eventually, but as of right now he is not.
We have a bunch of role scorers, which is in essence what you are talking about, Esco. But role scorers score in the flow of the game. But as we have seen time and time again, we struggle when Pierce and Ricky are not scoring or creating for others. We need someone we can go to to get points.
This is why we need to start getting Jefferson touches to get him comfortable with being put on the spot to score for us.
Raef and Delonte are role players/scorers (though I do agree that eventually, Delonte will be more of a scoring factor--I mentioned that in the very first post).
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Post by esco33 on Dec 9, 2005 14:28:04 GMT -5
I agree with you that Delonte and Raef score within the flow of the offense. I don't think Doc calls plays for them, isolation, etc. lol.
I also agree that Big Al is the next go-to-guy down low, or the only one basically. (for bigs)
So we actually agree for the most part. I just think that if Delonte or Raef score within the flow of the offense that it's not as bad as you think.
Eventually, Big Al will get more experience, and they can call more plays for him, but right now at least one of them either Pierce or Ricky will be on the floor. The rest of the team will just need to keep good chemistry, ball movement and find their shots.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Dec 9, 2005 15:58:52 GMT -5
So we actually agree for the most part. I just think that if Delonte or Raef score within the flow of the offense that it's not as bad as you think.
And that's the crux of this thread. We go into scoring droughts because we don't have a guy to go to if Pierce and Ricky aren't playing, or if only one of them is playing.
Scoring in the flow of the offense doesn't seem to work when Pierce and/or Ricky aren't on the court.
But yeah, essentially, we are talking about the same thing--same book, different chapter ;D
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Post by esco33 on Dec 9, 2005 16:07:48 GMT -5
The ideal other option would actually be Gerald Green if he turns out anywhere near what he is projected to be (Tracy McGrady). But from what I undertsand we will have to be extremely patient with him. He is not as ready as Al was last year, or maybe even Perk the year before.
So our best bet of a third option for right now is Big Al.
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