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Post by Celtic17 on Jul 22, 2005 0:52:23 GMT -5
How bout we call it good @ Russell and Cowens?
We might toss Parish in there...
"Mmmmm, soooo gooood."
Jackie Gleason bit...
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Post by celtics4ever on Jul 22, 2005 6:50:25 GMT -5
Now I know I am not going to sway educated smart fans like you guys. But I think the he doesn't have support argument is less valid if you look at their teams their rookie years. Wade carried the heat to the eastern conference semi finals his rookie year no Shaq. The one stat I like best about Wade is that he plays better in the playoffs when it counts. He averages 20.6 PPG in the reg season but 22.9 in the playoffs for his career. For this year it was 24.1 PPG reg season with 27.4 in playoffs. This kid has the eye of the tiger and is a money player. Lebron has better stats and more size. I think they are both uber althletic. But I think Wade wants to win more and he plays harder. To me that is very important. I get the sense James is coasting now and again. I rarely if ever get that with Wade. Boozer and Ilgauskas were not bad James rookie year though. Much better than Jones or Odom statwise which Wade had to deal with. Despite this Wade carrying them deep into the playoffs. I think its a myth perpepuated by the league's proganda ministers to keep Lebron's rep up until Sterno can move him to NYC. Peeps in Cleveland are really afraid of that happening and we all love conspiracy theories. I don't care for Stern. I think he doesn't like us and dislike him as well. Any other paranoid Anti -Sternites out there? Roadrunner, the Cavs have had a decent off season. They got Donyell Marshall for PF now. They resigned Z ( Ilgauskas) who is a decent center and under rated and added Larry Hughes. Top free agents didn't flock to play with Lebron despite them being 16 million under the cap but who wants to play in C- Town or second fiddle. Overall, this upgrades their team though. But basketball will always be the 2nd or 3rd sport in Cleveland. I hear alot about the Cavs as I can't pick up Boston sports radio its Cleveland or Pittsburgh and that is it. Belive me I hear too much about the Cavs. I like this site it analyzes points and how team mates play when a player is on the court. Here is Wade www.82games.com/03MIA3A.HTM and here is www.82games.com/03CLE5D.HTM. Here are their rookie year teams first www.82games.com/0304MIA.HTM Wade and www.82games.com/0304CLE.HTM James. I used the Shaq free year because I think its a better estimate of the players and many think Shaq is the total reason. For those who like this site here is last years Celtics www.82games.com/0405BOS.HTM its pretty neat. Check it out not for just the sake of this post but for yourself. As Derren said they are both great young players and its a toss up. I knew I would be the miniority favoring Wade. I would have traded PP for him when he was rookie if I could. Those clutch player don't fall off trees. I knew Wade was going to be special after that triple double vs, a heavily favored KY team. C17, a dose of Cowen's toughness or grit or Russell's defensive acumen, competiveness and desire to win would be lovely. I 've always said no team would stand a chance if we could clone our players! What I loved about Bird and Cowens and Russ is that they too had that eye of the tiger. They would rather die than loose and play to win. I don't see that in James but I do in Wade. When he lost you could see he was devasted. With James I don't see that . I wish some of our guys now had that. That being said, I just wanted to explain why I go against the grain on the Wade/James issue. Sorry to highjack offtrack this thread my bad. I know I am not going to sway anyone but I don't want anyone thinking I am a whacko without explaining why. Hope I have not offended anyone. |
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Post by Ossric on Jul 22, 2005 7:11:54 GMT -5
Don't worry Celtics4ever, i also favor Wade over Lebron. I also wanted to trade Pierce for Wade in his rookie year. Just watching him play a couple of times back then told me enough. This kid is special. I just don't try to convince the others that he's better. It would be a dull place if we agreed on everything. The fact that Lebron couldn't get his Cavs on track when it mattered at the end of the season for 2 strait years is a signal. The thing that put me really over the top is this game: www.nba.com/games/20050320/CLETOR/boxscore.htmlHe just doesn't make his teammates better (at least not yet) taking 36 of the teams 81 FGA taking 12 of the teams 14 3PA taking 15 of the teams 25 FTA just strikes me as superman ability but low basketball IQ. The fact that he had ZERO fouls in 48 minutes in an important game strikes me as zero effort on defense. You just can't play good defense without committing a foul once & a while. You just don't win games if the entire team (except yourself) only scores 42 points! Unless your name is Wilt Chamberlain. |
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jul 22, 2005 10:37:11 GMT -5
I know I am not going to sway anyone but I don't want anyone thinking I am a whacko without explaining why. Hope I have not offended anyone.
Don't worry, C4Ever, we still think you are a whacko ;D
Nah, we won't take any offense to what you said. You disagree and make your points in a well thought out and courteous manner. We appreciate that.
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Post by Celtic17 on Jul 22, 2005 13:14:30 GMT -5
C4ever- This board wouldn't be fun if we all had the same opinion. Great to have you here on such a regular basis.  |
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Post by meltinjohn on Jul 22, 2005 22:16:45 GMT -5
I'm still not fond of players like Wade. Regardless. I hope our new team has no guys like Wade or Lebron. Just a team game type of team that wins championships.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jul 22, 2005 22:19:02 GMT -5
Ummm, these guys are team players, Meltin. These 2 guys are the types of players I'd build my team around. Not only are they unselfish, but they make others better.
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Post by meltinjohn on Jul 22, 2005 22:22:03 GMT -5
They make these guys look like they are unselfish but just wait and see as years go on when its even more evident. Then when you thought it over harder, then come back to me and talk about it.
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Post by celtics4ever on Jul 23, 2005 6:23:52 GMT -5
Bird averaged 5-6 APG these guys both top that and average more than Dennis Johnson did during the 80s. That being said, I would take Larry. I used this stat to put it into perspective. Jordan too averaged 5 APG or so his career and I thought he was a ball hog a lot.
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Post by eja117 on Jul 23, 2005 11:35:24 GMT -5
I'm not sure Wade could have led the Cavs to the playoffs his rookie year. I'm not sure Lebron could have led Miami to the playoffs either. Wade seems to have less talent but seems hungrier. I'm not sure Lebron is like Jordan in that sense. You could see it killed Jordan to lose. I'm not sure Lebron is like that. Till now I was all Lebron, but now I might have to rethink this.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jul 23, 2005 18:02:51 GMT -5
I get that killer sense from Lebron. In the long run, I'm thinking Lebron will have the better career.
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Post by meltinjohn on Jul 23, 2005 21:30:03 GMT -5
Lebron might be the next Antoine Walker. Who knows. He shoots terrible like Walker.
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Post by Roadrunner on Jul 23, 2005 22:55:00 GMT -5
Wade has definitely impressed me. Though, Wade's popularity has definitely been growing as well. He could be a player the NBA markets itself after, like Lebron.
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Post by meltinjohn on Jul 23, 2005 23:56:50 GMT -5
Who cares.
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Post by mev17 on Jul 24, 2005 1:29:09 GMT -5
Actually, I thought that was a great post, celtics4ever, and I hope to read a lot more of them. I was very impressed with Wade's performance this year and felt his injury hurt Miami more than Shaq being less than 100%. IMO he has changed the debate from LeBron vs Carmelo to LeBron vs Wade. I would actually lean towards Wade as he performed well before hurting himself against none-other than the Pistons during the playoffs, while we have not seen LeBron handle playoff pressure yet. I should be great watching their careers develop.
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