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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jul 6, 2005 0:35:24 GMT -5
Hey there, GC34. Don't need to apologize for wanting Walker back. We are all entitled to our own opinions. Your's just happens to be wrong ;D Just kidding, buddy.
Mev made a good point about the overall impact of Walker's return. After the initial big run we had immediately after his comeback, we fell on our faces and he returned to the Walker who was traded away.
He does bring a certain attitude change, but it borderlines swagger and classlessness (6 S's in that word--how many scrabble points is that?).
If Walker wants to come back, he really needs to change his game for good. No more 3 pointers, no more trying to take over the offense all on his own. No more taking over the PG duties. Just rebound as much as he can and score off of putbacks.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Jul 6, 2005 0:38:19 GMT -5
Good to see you around derren. this place has been a graveyard all night.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jul 6, 2005 1:08:13 GMT -5
Really? Maybe its your avatar ;D Its scaring our posters away.
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Post by mev17 on Jul 6, 2005 1:33:58 GMT -5
Welcome goceltics34! No need to apologize for wanting to resign Walker; we all want what is best for the Celtics and are all entitled to our opinions.
That being said, I honestly disagree. The problem is our ultimate aspirations are higher than winning a weak division. And I have never seen a team characterized by bad shot selection, low shooting percentage and turnovers compete for a championship. The Spurs and Pistons not only played solid defense (which is not Walker's strong suit either) but advanced by executing well under pressure and making good decisions. With Walker, there are too many poor decisions, especially on offense. The positives IMO don't out weigh the negatives by much, at least not by enough to help us advance in the playoffs, and not enough for me to want younger players to pick up on any of his bad habbits.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jul 6, 2005 12:03:22 GMT -5
Karma point for Mev.
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Post by Jambr380 on Jul 9, 2005 21:34:33 GMT -5
Reasons to bring Walker Back:
When he was traded back to Boston this spring, people were ecstatic and said he would take the heat off of Pierce. Even though Pierce is taking a lot of heat himself now, it is for a different reason. Walker can handle the pressure that no one else on this team can.
Walker loves it in Boston. He loves to please the fans and hates to disappoint them. He wants nothing more than to give all of his effort here. I think starting from the beginning of the year, rather than being asked to save this team from missing the playoffs, his role as a top 2 scorer will change.
For his talent level, Antoine is pretty darn cheap (cheaper than Blonut) and is useful at many positions. His intangibles are hard to find among PFs- leading the break, quick post moves, and yes, even popping the three. The PF position has the most talent of any position in basketball. I just don't think Al is ready to man it quite yet.
He is the epitome of a hard worker, and will show the young guys what it's like to be a true celtic. He missed it here and wants to be back. So rather than signing non-impact players like Scalabrine or Antonio Davis, Ainge should want a player like Toine, who bleeds green.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jul 9, 2005 21:45:12 GMT -5
Yes, you have valid points on all three fronts. He is a talented PF who can dribble, lead breaks, and shoot the three's.
But I would sacrifice all his other skills if he would just concentrate on being a double digit rebounder and garbage scorer for us.
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Post by Jambr380 on Jul 9, 2005 21:54:50 GMT -5
I mentioned that if he started fresh from the beginning of the year, he would have a much better chance being just that. He is clearly a special player, but has to put a lot of that aside for the benefit of the younger players, except in close games.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jul 9, 2005 22:04:43 GMT -5
Well, in both situations (first in Dallas, and then in his return to Boston), he did change his role to be just that--giving more by doing less. But he eventually reverted back to doing too much again. I think its just his competitive nature in him that makes him want to do so much. He knows he can dribble past big men, and he know he can get to the basket and get off a shot against opponents. He likes to be the one in charge of directing the offense, as well as being a big part of the success the team gets. When he's on his game, he is like a superstar. When he's not, he's like a cancer. More times than not, he's not on top of his game, as evident by his career FG% and his declining rebounding numbers. And that's why a lot of us have soured on him because we don't want him being such an integral part of everything we do on the court.
If he lets go of trying to be a ball handler and lets go of trying to be the #2 scorer, and lets go of trying to do too much, he'd grab a lot more fans who support his game.
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Post by Celtic17 on Jul 9, 2005 22:05:40 GMT -5
That's when the young guys (maybe not the rooks) need to be getting minutes. They need to learn how to handle these situation, so they can deal with them better in the post-season. They are the future of this team... We also have enough coaches to teach the young guys how to play. |
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Post by mev17 on Jul 10, 2005 3:25:06 GMT -5
I frankly agree with DM. He has had more than one chance, once in Dallas where he did join them at the beginning of the year, and in his start in Atlanta, and then in his "second chance" in Boston. Neither Dallas nor Atlanta were interested in keeping him, and Boston only will (according to articles I've read in the Boston Herald and Globe websites) "for the right price." After nine years in the league, I just don't see Walker ever shaking those "old habbits" and reshaping who he is as a player. If he couldn't do it for Dallas, who was coming off a 60 win team when he first joined them and had NBA Finals aspirations, I don't see him doing it for Ainge and the Celtics. The fact the Celtics are so young will make it difficult for Walker to defer part of his game, as he will see himself as one of the "leaders" which in his mind means "main scoring option."
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jul 10, 2005 3:47:06 GMT -5
This is not to say that Walker isn't a good player. He is a unique talent because of his height and skills. Its just that his game needs a lot of adjustments to fit into our overall gameplan, and frankly, its up in the air whether or not he'll be able to cut back on his duties--or whether he'll be willing to sacrifice a big part of his game, such as ball handling and the three point shot.
But all in all, if Walker can't get a better offer anywhere else, he'll be back with us, and Ainge won't have to over spend. I'm sure for a good deal, Ainge wouldn't mind bringing Walker back. But Doc is going to have to make sure Walker keeps his game in check and to make sure the young guys don't pick up Walker's bad habits.
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Post by ferbo on Jul 10, 2005 9:05:11 GMT -5
Two things AW has not done. I had thought that possibly DA would be in a position during off-season negotiations to put them in place: (1)work on his life---like Perk has---to increase his jumping ability both for rebounding and for getting off paint shots without getting blocked. And commit to learning a low-post game.
Someone help me here:
1. DA is apparently looking for some payroll flexibility.
2. AW can sign elsewhere, and the Cs won't be out a dime, or lose a dime.
3. Yet there is talk of a sign and trade involving AW.
4. Such will bring back in return someone fairly pricey---doesn't the return have to be within 20% of AW's salary?
5. Thus the end result will be to increase the payroll, in comp[arison to letting him simply walk.
6. Talk is about how it will help when the contract of that person(s) expires.
What am I missing?
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Post by greenblood on Jul 10, 2005 12:52:42 GMT -5
ferbo, doing a sign and trade involving Antoine would give the Celtics financially flexibility when the contract they traded for expires. If they were to resign Antoine, they would have to commit to a 4 or 5 year deal, worth somewhere in the neighborhood of 25 million. If the player they get back is in the last year of a deal, they haven't made nearly the financial committment. Too my knowledge, this may put them near the 45 million dollar range next summer, making them a trade or two away from being players in the free agent market. Also, this would keep them away from a high luxury tax threshold, which would make a trade for a bigger contract (which hopefully means a better player) more likely. I'm sure there is something that I'm missing, but hopefully I explained some of it.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jul 10, 2005 13:10:07 GMT -5
I had the same question running through my mind, Ferbo. GB's right in that if we sign and trade Walker for a player who's contract is expiring next year, we make out by not having Walker's new contract on our hands for a longer period of time and instead get a player in return who'll be coming off the books sooner. Plus, I think Ainge is looking for draft picks to be involved.
But who's to say that only Walker is involved in trade talks? Maybe its Raef, maybe Blount, maybe one (or a couple) of our young guys, maybe Pierce--who knows.
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