Chris Paul: Billups Version 2.0?

[DERRENMATTS]

Exactly (hey, not everyone can do what Danny Manning did ;D. But hopefully, who ever we draft will make more out of his potential than Manning did).

Marcus Williams is another very good looking PG in college. At times, he may slow the game down a bit too much and hold onto the ball. But I think Calhoun has done a good job of reminding him to keep pushing the ball. Funny you mention him because a couple of nights ago, I was going through some of my college tapes to get a second look at some of the players we could take a 18, and I got around to watching a few UCONN (and a lot of UNC) games. Marcus Williams has such a knack for getting guys to bite on his fakes. They have no clue whether he's going to pass or score. He'll be driving in the lane, give a head fake while still dribbling the ball, and his man is totally disrupted, leaving Williams free to either penetrate more or dish off to a teammate. He's so heady and he can push the tempo well. Much like Delonte in that they don't have mercurial speed, but both are smart players. Marcus is a natural PG though.

[meltinjohn]

derrenmatts said:

I hate seeing anything that says "Chris paul will be a nice fit here". He won't be. He is gonna be trouble. Doesn't any sensible human being in here agree with me?

This implies that you are a sensible human being and the rest of us who don't agree with you aren't. Just because we think Chris Paul can be a good fit here we are not sensible? BTW, you still haven't told us why you think we are wrong.

I've seen Raymond Felton play a ton of times and I have a bunch of UNC games from this past year on tape. I have seen Chris Paul a handful of times and I see the potential in the guy. But I have never referred to any of the PG's as being a potentially great player. I do not even consider guys like Kobe or Tmac to be great players. I rarely use that word. What I've been saying is that Chris Paul could be a good fit with our team because of his ability to score and pass and for the feel he possesses for the game. I said I'd like to get Felton because he's such an amazing passer and I feel that he could get our running game going.

Derren, you're the one who brings Chris Paul up the most. Why should I tell you why I think you're wrong?
If so, I can say that the early part of the draft can be overhyped but if you say he could fit the system even as an ok player, thats fine. Sometimes I think you mean something else and blow it up. But an ok to just a good player should not be 3rd pick caliber. A great player should be a 3rd pick.

[DERRENMATTS]

Derren, you're the one who brings Chris Paul up the most. Why should I tell you why I think you're wrong?

Because you insinuated that those of us who think that Paul can be a good fit here are not sensible human beings. This is the whole point of my discussion with you. I can go along with disagreements and different point of views. But when you start saying things like we have no sense because we think Paul is capable of being a good fit, you better be able to back up your point of view.

[Roadrunner]

Derren, when Taliek Brown was the point guard for UCONN, you knew he wasn't going to shoot the ball. So opposing guards could simply guard him to pass the ball. Williams on the other hand, not only can he pass, he will shoot. Good looking prospect. ;D

[DERRENMATTS]

I actually liked Taliek Brown. He has Chucky Atkins' game. Nice PG who ain't that good, but can look good in spurts. Williams is light years ahead of where Brown ever was. And he's only going to improve as he plays more. His athleticism is not that good, but he's sneaky. Tricky, is more like the word I'm looking for. And his shooting is good too. He's an excellent spot shooter and he's good at getting floaters in the lane to go in. He needs to work on his midrange pull up jumper off the dribble.

He's smart to stay at UCONN for at least another year. With 4 of the top PG's leaving for the NBA this year, he's going to be one of the best PG's in the country at the college level next year.

RR, if you like Marcus William's game, you gotta check out Jordan Farmar who plays for the UCLA Bruins. He's one of my favorite PG's in the country, and he's only going to be a sophomore next season. He's like Delonte, but much more of a true PG. Maybe a clone of Kirk Hinrich. Really smart kid who can control the ball really well.

[Roadrunner]

Derren, yeah I have never seen Farmer. Probably because UCLA games start late on the east coast. I will check him out.

Williams was a big surprise for me. Also, supposedly AJ Price is even better than him, but since the hemorage I am not sure where his career stands.

If Charlie V stayed at UCONN, another National title would happen. It actually still might happen, since UNC is done, but it will be much tougher.

[meltinjohn]

derrenmatts said:

Derren, you're the one who brings Chris Paul up the most. Why should I tell you why I think you're wrong?

Because you insinuated that those of us who think that Paul can be a good fit here are not sensible human beings. This is the whole point of my discussion with you. I can go along with disagreements and different point of views. But when you start saying things like we have no sense because we think Paul is capable of being a good fit, you better be able to back up your point of view.

Paul can be a good fit IF only that college incident was a freak thing. Maybe if his star status is pretty low, hed be fine. If he is a bad boy type pg, thats fine just as long as hes not a cancer which that low blow incident was a sign of.

[DERRENMATTS]

Believe me, Meltin. That was a one time incident. This is a classy kid. He's the type of guy parents would love their daughters dating. A real gentlemen. His character is one of the biggest reason why teams love this kid. His low blow actually surprised many because its just not like him to do that. But don't expect him to be a cancer just because of that incident. His track record indicates he's a fine character person.

RR, I'm big on Josh Boone, despite his horrendous drop off this season. He was foul proned and just wasn't the same guy he was as a freshman. Plus, a thing I noticed about Calhoun this season was how he'd sub players in and out rather frequently. And he'd seem to do it when players turned the ball over--not just because of foul trouble. Boone would make a bad pass and he'd be sitting on the bench right after that.

Boone's got the length, the reach, the aggressiveness, and the technique to be a solid rebounder. And his energy is good. He's a guy I envision to be a good backup Big on our team.

[meltinjohn]

Yea I was shocked too because before that incident, I heard good things overall. Maybe that guy was pushing or knocking him around too. Nobody knows the whole story. Many guys may want to bully smaller pg's. Anyways, I say Damon Stoudamire is as far as Paul goes which is still good but just not an all star. Maybe hed be a last choice all star with a low ranking in it.

[eja117]

I'd trade Paul for the third pick and Van Exel in a heartbeat. Then trade down a few spots and get future picks. I don't think the Celtics can win with Paul (or Antoine for that matter). You need an MVP type player (or two or three) to win a championship. If you don't have one you go the Pistons/Patriots route and get a ton of excellent players with awesome chemistry (and maybe a defensive player of the year type). It appears we're headed the Pistons route, and I don't think Paul Pierce fits in there. I don't think he's a hungry leader. I got tired of watching him and Antoine get killed every playoffs. This team should get another high energy high performance big man like Ike Diogo and start a bad boys defensive thing with Perk.. You need a good smart point guard like that. Since Chris Paul was overhyped and got Wake Forest nowhere in college I'd go with Derron Williams or Felton with a high pick. But only if they can't get that Lithuanian Sarunus. Then sign a sg like Redd or just hold onto the money and bide our time since the team is so young. Draft two sgs in the 2nd round and let them fight it out. Maybe Luther Head and Amir Johnson. Give valuable minutes to Tony A and Delonte. And forget all about Pierce.

[DERRENMATTS]

Welcome aboard, Eja117. Excellent first post.

I agree with what you are saying. Getting strong defensively, especially in the middle (ala the Bad Boys) will be a big step forward for us. And getting a smart PG is defintely a piece I sorely want to add. Have you guys noticed that our PG's aren't tasked to create plays for others. Watch Payton, Banks, and West when they handle the ball, and when we are set in our halfcourt offense, all the PG's will do is stand at either the top of the key or at the high wings and just wait for the play to develop--which is usually a screen to free up Ricky or Pierce. All our PG's do is jus wait until Ricky or Pierce flashes open, and then they pass it to them. Nothing more than that. Sure, once in awhile, Payton will penetrate and dish, but for the most part, we don't ask our PG's to weave into traffic and create plays for our teamates. So yes, getting a smart PG who can create plays is very much needed. I do think Chris Paul can do the job. He was tasked to take Wake very far, maybe even to the promised lands, but look at the talent on his team and it isn't as strong as UNC's or even Illinois'. Eric Williams is the only guy even close to be considered an all-conference performer. Justin Gray, Jamaal Levy, and Vytas Danelius don't compare to Marvin Wiliams, Jawad Williams, or Rashad McCants.

I'm a big Felton fan, so I'd have no problem if we can't bring in Paul and instead bring in Felton. I'm not as big on Deron Williams as many others are. But he has more PG skills than Delonte (i.e. dribbling in traffic and penetrating) and better court vision and passing abilities than Banks so he'd be an upgrade for us. I'd take Jarret Jack before Deron Williams, though.

Getting rid of Atoine is the way to go. He does take up too much of our team. He's like the big brother all the kids follow because of his magnetic personality, but he's a big brother with leads them to do bad things. Toine isn't going to sustain his attempt to play the way he's supposed to for any length of time. In Dallas, he played well for about 2 months and then reverted to his old ways, which got him kicked out of there. When he came back to us, he played the way he's supposed to and it got us an 11 game winning streak. But he changed back to his old ways down the stretch and in the playoffs.

Moving Pierce to get us a smart PG might be the way to go. Move Pierce and train Ricky to be a player who fits into our system better. Ricky still has a ways to go before being a smart player. He still thinks he's a good ball handler who can penetrate into traffic, which he isn't IMO. His best bet is to come off of screens and fire quick pull up jumpers. When he starts to size up his opponent and out manuever him, he gets himself into trouble.

[eja117]

When I said we should start a bad boys thing I also of course meant Al Jeff. In my dreams I see him as a version of Ben Wallace with offensive skills. In terms of our point guards I agree they stand around, but at least they don't mess things up too much standing around, trying to take over and doing too much like Steph Marbury (and in his case not even doing it that well). Then at least they save their energy for defense, which is a welcome change. I have to admit. I don't hate M Banks. yet. He's fast as heck. You just gotta like that. And he's really strong looking. It's like him and Perkins bought a gym together at the end of last year. Also I love Julius Hodge. there I said it. had to get that off my chest.

[DERRENMATTS]

I''m really high on Big Al's potential as an offensive, as well as defensive player. He doesn't get too much attention for his defensive abilities, mostly for his offensive potential and rebounding ability. But I see him being a very productinve defensive player. He disrupts his man's shot attempt very well, as well as getting his hands close to blocking shots whenever he's in the area. And his biggest weakness early in the year was defending his man in the post. But in the playoffs, I felt he did a wonderful job against Jermaine O'neal when he went up against him.

As for PG's, we do need our PG's to start creating easier attempts for our players. Just passing to the flasher is not enough. They need to start using picks and screens more, which will allow them to make lateral passes to the cutting screener, or let them continue to penetrate into the lane. I'm a fan of Delonte because he's such a heady player and a good looking shooter, but he doesn't have that strong penetrating ability to create opportunities for himself or others. I know there are a lot of Marcus Banks fans out there, but I don't consider myself one of them. He is fast and he is built well. But he's a sloppy ball handler and he has no idea of what to do with the ball other than look for his own scoring opportunity. But I do like his developing jumper. He comes off of screens quickly, which gives him space from his man. And then he goes up for a 20 foot jumper. He's getting better at that. He's still having trouble with finishing his drives, often looking rather awkward, especially when its at the front of the rim.

Watch out for Julius Hodge. I was a supporter of him as a college junior. But since then, he's lost athleticism, he's lost his shooting, and his dribbling seemed to have regressed. When he had his athleticism, his shooting, and his dribbling, he reminded me of Josh Howard. But now, he looks like a shell of his former self. I hear he's rising in these workouts, but I don't see him as being a productive complimentary player in the NBA. He was always the main man at NCState. He won't have that role on whichever team he ends up with in the NBA.

[meltinjohn]

Big Al can be a 19 and 10 guy I think and maybe 2-3 bpg can be added on. Perkins may not pan out and is iffy and is building a bad reputation with the refs but he does get some good scores and rebounds "at times" as flashes of what he could be to the highest but we know Al J can go bigger places and thats the main thing.
As far as the pg situation, Danny really has to think of a way to get another Chauncey Billups type. Whether it be in this draft or next. Seeing nobody besides Al J is an untouchable, a team might want Danny to add Perkins with Pierce to acquire one high pick or potential high pick (this yr or next, vice versa) and one midrange first round pick (this yr or next) from a team plus an expiring contract. Seattle comes to mind here. So could Memphis. Memphis has a midrange pick this year but could be headed to the lottery next year. This type of deal should be considered. Seattle also could be as well only they have a pick in the mid-late 20s.
Here could be a good trade:

Pierce and Perkins OR 2nd rder or two for

Wells ( I believe his contracts coming up)
15th-16th pick this year
Whatever number pick next year