Here's an interesting thought

[cfoo]

If you break down the trades. Our team would be the same except

West vs House
Telfair vs Pruitt
Gomes vs Davis
Al J vs KG
Szerbiak vs Allen
Ratliff vs Pollard
Green vs Posey

Outside of KG and Al Jefferson we really didnt get any older...... We basically got more experienced and sacrificed some youth. That youth can be replenished and we are still a young team for the most part. Whether we made or didnt make either trade we'd have a nice team imo as well..... I think KG and Allen put us in a better position to win now and don't really impair our future if we do things right. I'd love it if we could bring some of those guys back ultimately but now isn't the time.

West, Telfair, Gomes, Green and Al are really the only guys we lost with any value. Ratliff and Szerbiak we were looking to unload anyways. We added Allen, KG, House, Pruitt and Davis and Posey. Pollard is basically a cheaper alternative to ratliff and they are both basically what they are. A decent backup. Ratliff is pretty much done and Pollard has more value to this team imo and is a lot cheaper. The point is I think we will be able to recycle that youth as Garnett and Allen are winding down, and as our current young core is in their prime we won't see a dropoff. We are going to be faced with replacing certain guys like Garnett and posey and House and depending on what happens with Allen and TA, we are going to have to bring guys to replace those guys ultimately.

[DERRENMATTS]

cf00 said:

Like I was saying in the miami thread we basically saw what we'd be like without Kg and Allen. WE still have a nice young core.

Rondo
TA
Pierce
Scal
Perk

We'd be fighting for a playoff spot if we're lucky with that lineup (not trying to be rude here, bro).

We really need to get lucky and get a load of good young talent, and hopefully more than just the role player types. We need star caliber and borderline star talent players. Only Rondo fits this bill right now.

Powe, Baby, Perk, and TAllen are role players--if we want to be perennial high seeded playoff teams, we're going to need players who are much better than them.

Unless we use Garnett, Ray, or Pierce, I don't know how else we are going to get these kinds of players.

[cfoo]

You didn't read what I said. Outside of Garnett we aren't any older than we were. We brought in Pruitt who is a project like Telfair was. Davis like Gomes. We swapped out Wally who was on his last legs Young talent is a revolving door for the most part. You forget we acquired most of this talent with late draft picks in the 1st place. I just think people tend to overrate the players we gave up and fail to see we have already begun to replace those guys with Davis and Pruitt in last years draft. Gomes is doing well 3 years later but so will Davis. So will Powe etc, etc. We weren't loaded with the lebrons of the world int he first place. If we continue to draft well and play free agency well, we will replace these guys ultimately. I can see this team rolling even after Garnett is gone. I don't think there is going to be this huge dropoff, as long as we continue to do what we've already done.

4 years from now, Perk and Rondo are still going to be mainstays in our rotation. They also will be better than they are now. Pierce will probably still be here. He'll be 33 or whatever.... Garnett, Allen will be on their way out and we basically will be looking for their replacements. Tony Allen is a guy that could potentially step into Ray Allen's spot or we may have someone else in mind to help Tony Allen out. When you think about what we really gave up for Ray Allen it wasn't a whole lot. We can potentially do the same thing and get someone younger. His contract will be expiring and that is going to open up a lot of money to either spend or deal. KG I have a feeling is going to play for a while. But if we are drafting well its not going to be as difficult to replace him. We acquired those guys by drafting smart with low draft picks in the first place and trading away expiring contracts. Half our team is young. We aren't replacing as much as it seems. It also wont be as difficult to replace these guys as it seems if we draft well like we have and play free agency the right way and as long as players continue to improve.. The way I see scal is he is basically a filler. I also wouldn't be surprised if his contract and roster spot, plays into replacing these guys down the road. Posey, House, Pollard are also going to open up spots as well.

Who are we really looking to replace? Ray Allen I'm not so worried about. We got him fairly cheap and we can find another SG to replace him. I'm not sure if TA is it, but he could be or we could get some help. I don't think it's going to cost a lot fo replace Ray Allen. We could sign Gerald Green back for all we know. Other than that we are looking to replace "roleplayers" like posey and house. The one player that is going to be difficult to replace is Garnett. Pierce still has a lot of career left. So does Garnett for that matter. Our talent level is also going to be better because the young players we have are going to get better. Which is going to open up a lot of doors to let guys go and bring in other pieces. We aren't replacing several allstars here. We didn't have allstars to begin with. We acquired them by drafting late and lobbying those picks and contracts into what we have now.

The difference this time is we are going to have a good base of young talent like rondo and perk and ta and davis and powe and all these guys in their primes this time around and whoever else we draft so its actually going to be much easier to fill these holes. Our talent base will actually be stronger the next time around. All we had before was Pierce. When DA took over this team we had Pierce and Walker. It took 4 years to turn it around because he had to build up a depleted talent base. This time the turnaround will not be as long because we will have an actual talent base. Saying Rondo, Perk, TA, Davis, Powe, Pruitt etc are roleplayers is right, but these guys also comprise 75% of our rotation for the next decade if we want. We had none of that before. Plus we have Posey, House, Pierce, Allen, Garnett, Pollard, Scal and additional roster spots and draft picks to work with. Our talent level is much higher than it was. We are in a position of strength not a weakness if we play things right and utilize those roster spots correctly. We couldn't sign a free agent if we wanted to a year ago. Now players actually want to come here and we can sign free agents. Green, gomes, Al I'm sure all would come back here if they could. Gerald is already asking for a trade and wants out of Minny.

[cfoo]

The patriots are masters at this strategy. New england sports in general are dominant because of this. It's a revolving door. The patriots were terrible. But they built their team in such way where one player leaves and there is another player ready to fill that spot. Once you start winning players start falling in your lap. The pats traded a 4th round pick for Randy MOss because he didn't want to be in Oakland and wanted to play for a winner. As the patriots have continued to win personel has gotten easier and easier. Players are knocking down the door trying to get a ring and players are expendable. This is exactly what Ainge has done here imo because he knows that you can't hang onto guys and its better to win now. As we continue to win and draft well and make smart personell decisions, I think you will see these things fall into place. It's not going to be as difficult to replace these guys as you think. It's actually going to get easier and easier. Winning breeds winning. I think DA knew what he was doing and never had any plans of waiting on all these young guys. He saw his opportunity to put the team over teh top and he took it and he did the right thing. I know deep down you hate trading Al derren, but in reality getting KG and Allen was the most ingenius move Ainge made.. He was aggressive and didn't half (censored) it by just making the Allen deal. Being a great gm is like playing cards and you need to know when to go all in and AInge did it. He'll continue to be the aggressor and that might mean we trade for Al to get him back if he is the best player at that time. The situation here will also be an attractive one to players who want to win. The difference now and my only point is we are now in the drivers seat and in a position of strength, and thats going to make things easier in the future. Not more difficult.

[cfoo]

I also think if you look at the makeup of the patriots. They rolled the dice on Brady when it mattered. Bledsoe was a guy that was good but he lacked something imo... If you look at the patriots and brady from listening to him is a good guy and a smart guy but he also isn't afraid to hit you where it hurts. Ainge is also this personality. I always thought it was interesting how AInge has this brain doctor, because I've always wondered what kind of personality he is looking for in players. I tend to think the guys he traded are guys that didn't necessarily fit that mold. If you look at Perk, Rondo, Pierce, Garnett, Allen, TA, Posey, House, all the way down the line, all these guys imo have a killer instinct about them. Al always struck me as kind of soft. Maybe that will change down the line and he seemed to be turning that corner but when he came into the league he seemed kind of afraid to really bare down and hurt some people. Gerald Green,Telfair, gomes, these were all kind of the nice guys on the team imo..... They are young and out of highschool and that could change, but if we were going to win now, these guys had a ways to go to becoming really good winning type players. I think Ainge specifically chose to trade those guys for that reason. Jefferson, Green, Telfair as talented as they may be used to drive me nuts because of their defense. All 3 were kind of (censored) on teh defensive end. This is also why I liek Doc as a coach, because as nice a guy as I'm sure he is, I think he is a very hardnosed, tough minded guy in a lot of ways. He does things that doesn't make sense to some people sometimes, but I on the other hand think that speaks volumes for the kind of coach he really is. DA and Doc have this certain persona about them and that has translated well to the players that we have. I guess the point is what did we really lose and what are we replacing? I think Al and Gerald and Gomes are good, but they have a ways to go. Minny is 8-36 or whatever they are for a reason. We on the other hand are 35-8 for another reason. That isn't a knock on Al or Gerald or any of those guys either. I think all of them could potentially be players and Al in particular came a long way and was turning that corner, but they have a ways to go before they are winning type players. As we win we are going to be able to replace these guys with other guys who really want to win. It's the whole nice guys finish last sort of thing..... You can be a nice guy and there is nothing wrong with that. I just think some people have this wrong perception about Boston sports sometimes where ainge is looking for these heady type of players or whatever, when he may be looking for basketball iq and talent and all these things as well and that's all part of it, but what he is really looking for is someone who will stick a dagger through your heart and do whatever it takes to win and will win games.