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Post by DERRENMATTS on Dec 31, 2007 1:07:17 GMT -5
He started in place of Rajon, and though he didn't play much like a PG, we all got to see TAllen start to regain his form from last season. He got to the front of the rim at least 6-7 times, and that in itself is something to write home about. It shows his first step is almost there, and it shows his confidence is rising. He did miss some easy layups, but it won't be long before he starts finishing better (he proved that last sason).
TAllen gives us a slashing threat outside of Paul PIerce. He attacks the paint more often than RAllen, and he gets to the basket more frequently too. But more importantly, he gives us another defensive pest--a guy who can manufacture steals and get us into transition. Very importantl.
Having a productive TAllen off the bench really solidifies our backcourt depth. House and Posey are doing a terrific job, but TAllen gives us yet another dimension.
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Post by runrondo on Dec 31, 2007 1:13:16 GMT -5
The MAJOR problem with Tony is that he has trouble coming off the bench..Look at his play when he starts(Rondo injured, and Ray) and he played great basketball and look at the games off the bench(struggles)..Off the bench he seems to struggle to find the flow and tempo of the game and gets frustrated offensively at least..I don't know but i think starting him and placing Ray Ray as sixth man would be a nice experiment...
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Dec 31, 2007 1:16:53 GMT -5
Yes, you are correct. I have thought that TAllen is one of these players who need time to get into the flow of the game before he can play comfotably. Some cars don't need to sit in the garage for a few seconds to warm up, while some do. Tony is one of those cars it seems.
It was the same last season. Once he got the starting nod for the injured Pierce, his game took off.
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cfoo
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Post by cfoo on Dec 31, 2007 1:45:34 GMT -5
I think TA is an energy guy and is a great bench player. His biggest problem right now is he can't explode to the basket and finish. This team has so many ball handlers TA doesn't really need to play like a pg when rondo is out. He is an extra guard. and a good combo guard and fits this team well as a bench player imo. His first step is there and his defense is getting back. EArlier in the year he couldnt guard anyone and was really tentative all around but he's getting back. His game was taking off anyways. The past several games he's been playing well.
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cfoo
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Post by cfoo on Dec 31, 2007 1:48:31 GMT -5
I think TA gets back in form and gets 15-20 minute sa game he will score 10-15 pts a game. He's been doing that more consistently this past month. In his last 8 games he's scored in double figures 5 times. he's also had multiple steals over that same stretch.
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Post by CelticsLoyalist on Dec 31, 2007 5:37:50 GMT -5
Runrondo, Derren had mentioned before he thought Ray should come off the bench ala the Spurs, I accidentally stole his thunder in a post when I thought the same thing, but much later. In any case, it seems there is quite a few of us who think this is a good idea. It seems logical only because Ray can get off when ever he wants. TA isn't as lucky and needs to get in their from minute 1 if he wants to get into the flow. I would love to see Doc at least experiment with that now instead of later. You don't want to mess with the chemistry, so the sooner the better. If it doesn't work you can quickly return to the same old same old. Now that TA is showing signs of old, theres no time like now to give it a go, but I have little hope Doc and Co even realize this possibility. Its easy to think they wouldnt see this option due to the big 3 overshadowing everything. However, if Tony's play as of late and in the games he started stand out to us this much, maybe there is hope.
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Post by Global Celtic on Dec 31, 2007 15:48:12 GMT -5
I haven't seen the last 2games, but didn't he played without that black protection in his knee? I always thought that was more a mental thing and that the real TA would start to emerge once he left that that knee protection.
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Post by runrondo on Dec 31, 2007 16:04:01 GMT -5
He played with a knee sleeve which too me looks more comfortable...
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Post by Global Celtic on Dec 31, 2007 18:34:26 GMT -5
Oh yeah, I just checked the video on NBA.com. But I guess that's just precautionary. Or maybe he just doesn't feel totally confident yet.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jan 1, 2008 4:04:31 GMT -5
I think he's still wearing his full armor knee brace. Looks like he had that bulky brace on during the Lakers game. I didn't notice what he was wearing in the Jazz game.
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cfoo
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Post by cfoo on Jan 1, 2008 14:40:54 GMT -5
I'm sure Doc is aware of all these scenarios and so am I. I wouldn't bench Allen, because it doesn't make any sense. It's better to have Tony Allen coming off the bench and start and finish with your best players. Mchale came off the bench early in his career but as he proved himself he made his way into the starting lineup because he was the best player. Benching Ray Allen would be the opposite of that and it wouldn't make us better. I never liked that philosophy because when you do that you are thinning out your roster and you are making the team stronger in the middle fo the game which is even debatable, and not as strong at the start and the finish. Ray can still play with the bench and he does. So does Pierce, etc... We dont need to do that. Allen is coming back from surgery and is getting hte minutes he should and he is being allowed to regain his form.
You completely take away our advantage of having 3 of the best players in the game. HAving them start and play at the same time and finish is what overwhelms teams. Say you have bird and Jordan. Would you play Jordan the first quarter and then play Bird the 2nd and then JOrdan the 3rd. Let Jordan get his shots in the 1st quarter, then let bird get his shots. That's basically what you are doing. that doesn't make sense because it would be like having 1 good player instead of 2.
What if Ray sits the first 8 minutes and Pierce is cold. Ray comes in and he is cold. We just wasted 16 miutes when we could have had both guys and our best team out tehre and moved the ball and found the open guy and found the hot man.
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Post by moreese on Jan 2, 2008 15:05:51 GMT -5
Derrenmatts we agree!! I have been saying this all year, Tony Allen is the one player we have who hasn't been producing at the level he is capable of. Since we watched the same situation unfold with him last year (slow start after injury, strong finish) we have to be very excited about his improvement. The one thing we are missing is a consistent slasher/scorer of the bench. Right now our bench has great shooting and even better defense, which has formulated in amazing success. Adding a consistent scorer to that bench could make us unstoppable! He is almost there, right now I'd say in a few weeks we may have the old Tony back.
This is also why I don't think we need a post presence added to this team. Pierce, Rondo and T. Allen can all score so well in the paint, they really can substitute for a legit post player. Remember, it isn't how you score in the paint, all that matters is that you CAN. With Allen coming back, this team is so perfect I'm afraid to make any changes. Everything is hitting on all cylinders, and a championship looks almost locked up. Surely nobody around here wants to jinx it, but we can all pretty much agree that a ring is now what we expect, and we will be very disappointed and surprised if we do not get it.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jan 3, 2008 4:24:05 GMT -5
Finally!!! I knew we had to hit on something we agree on, Moreese!!!
Yeah, Tony offers things that very few players on the team do--athleticism, slashing ability, and defense. Pierce can slash, but Tony provides athleticism and defense too. Ray Allen is athletic and he can do some slashing, but Tony is a better slasher and can defend better as well. Posey can do some slashing and he can defend, but Tony has better athelticism.
He's not even at 100% yet (but he's close) and his confidence isn't at its highest yet (but it's coming), but he can still get to the basket, and make his way to the free throw line. He didn't play much in the Houston game, but he has been getting more playing time, and that's what'll get his juices running. Tony is an emotional player and the more good things he does on the court, the more his confidence is fueled.
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findawgg
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Post by findawgg on Jan 3, 2008 12:43:57 GMT -5
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD BOSTON REPLACE RAY ALLEN WITH TONY ALLEN IN THE STARTING LINE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can't say it vehemently enough. Boston is 27 and 3 with the line up as is........there is no cause or need to change the line up. I agree that Tony is starting to come along, but has no business supplanting Ray Ray. If he comes all the way back to form he will be the explosive sixth man Boston needs............OFF THE BENCH!!!
--Fin
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Post by runrondo on Jan 3, 2008 15:16:42 GMT -5
I'm sure Doc is aware of all these scenarios and so am I. I wouldn't bench Allen, because it doesn't make any sense. It's better to have Tony Allen coming off the bench and start and finish with your best players. Mchale came off the bench early in his career but as he proved himself he made his way into the starting lineup because he was the best player. Benching Ray Allen would be the opposite of that and it wouldn't make us better. I never liked that philosophy because when you do that you are thinning out your roster and you are making the team stronger in the middle fo the game which is even debatable, and not as strong at the start and the finish. Ray can still play with the bench and he does. So does Pierce, etc... We dont need to do that. Allen is coming back from surgery and is getting hte minutes he should and he is being allowed to regain his form. You completely take away our advantage of having 3 of the best players in the game. HAving them start and play at the same time and finish is what overwhelms teams. Say you have bird and Jordan. Would you play Jordan the first quarter and then play Bird the 2nd and then JOrdan the 3rd. Let Jordan get his shots in the 1st quarter, then let bird get his shots. That's basically what you are doing. that doesn't make sense because it would be like having 1 good player instead of 2. What if Ray sits the first 8 minutes and Pierce is cold. Ray comes in and he is cold. We just wasted 16 miutes when we could have had both guys and our best team out tehre and moved the ball and found the open guy and found the hot man. Just because Ray starts the game doesn't mean he would never play with the other big 2..It would be just to get Tony warmed up because agaisnt Houston he was pretty poor again coming off the bench after that Lakers game where he played the best basketball he has played this year..but yeah, i was just throwing that scenario out, i didn't actually think it would be the best thing to do to a 27-3 team(mess with the starting lineup) just posing an interesting concept.. |
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