What are we missing?

[runrondo]

cf00 said:

Last year

In 22 mpg perk averaged 4.5 ppg on 49% shooting, 5.2 rebs, 3 fouls

this year in 24 mpg he is averaging 7.1 pts on 60% shooting and 5.6 rebs, and 2.9 fouls. As the season goes hopefully he will get up around 10 pts and 8 boards

Rondo last year averaged 6.4 pts and 3.8 assists and on 42% shooting, 2.3 fouls in 23 mpg

This year he is averaging 9.4 and 5.3 assists on 50% shooting, 2.8 fouls in 31 mpg

Both players are coming along at the same clip, but people applaud rondo and say perk is sucking and that's not accurate.

Both players miss shots they should make. So many times during games Rondo will throw up an ugly shot or a layup that he should finish or make and Perk does the same. But you applaud Rondo and want to replace Perk and that's not fair. They basically are at the same pt in their career and their production and the way they play their position at this point is nearly identical.

I don't agree with this mainly because:

Discount FG% considering Perk makes ONLY layups and dunks(lucky hook or post up every once in a blue moon) while Rondo HAS been working on that shot and using it lots..

Perk has started 125 games, Rondo has started 54 games
Rondo is 21
Perk is 23 No big difference in age i agree with you here

The stats you used are a little misleading..Take 2 years ago for Perk he averaged:
5.2PPG 6.0RPG in 19.6MPG
then use last years stats:
4.5PPG 5.2RPG in 21MPG

This is dissapointing in a time when he got a chance to reallly shine since no one but Pierce was there to be dependent on but instead he showed minimal change or progress, then this year

This year's 7.0PPG 5.4RPG 24.8MPG

Seem to show minimal progress 2 more PPG than usual but that can be credited to being open because of the big 3



Perk has been in the league 5 years(i know i know he didn't get alot of minutes until recently but he's averaged 19.6 minutes or more for 3 seasons) but he still hasn't figured out to NOT PUT THE BALL DOWN and/or show it to the defender in the post or with a wide open hoop..If you can't fix such a tiny problem that's he has been doing for years how can we expect him to ever reach anything special..He has NO NO NO offensive moves and it's been written, said, seen that he works on them ALL THE TIME..That shows he just doesn't have the moves offensivelly..The guy seems to have cement in his shoes and a MAJORITY of his points/baskets are not because of him but because defenders leave him open and we find them(Rondo finds him often!) Now when Perk misses i say ugly because the move, motion, speed, everything was ugly but when Rondo shoots ugly/misses layup, etc. i say at least he made a nice move and penetrated and will make it the NEXT TIME The good thing about that was that he was aggressive...the DIFFERENCE is we see Rondo and critic him about things we KNOW HE CAN DO but is being passive about doing while we critic Perk about THINGS HE CAN'T DO and shows no signs of being able to..Now don't get me wrong Perk is the perfect complement to KG on defense so he fits there but he's probably not a solid starter in the NBA everywhere unless there's stars around him and he's just a nice backup..Now, i'm not saying to go out and get a starter i'm saying to get a big man to play some minutes when Perk will get in foul trouble or is hurting us offensively..He can still get his 25mpg it's just we need someone better than Pollard and bigger than Big baby to play center off the bench...

Let's take this..Rondo was criticized saying he COULDN'T SHOOT but look at this, his jumper is coming along showing he can improve even more since with that jumper comes more respect for it and bigger lanes and more open looks for everyone else..Perk gets criticized for his offense and well, we've seen no improvements(seriously) only thing he's good at his maybe making a layup wideopen from a pass and even then he puts the ball down and gets it smacked..

The way they are now is nowhere near identical and they're definetly not progressing identically..Perk's high ceiling is a solid starting Center but i only see him as a strong backup center while i see Rondo as a borderline allstar or maybe better
Big 3 help both of them but Perk relies totally on everyone else to get buckets while Rondo can create his own(driving and now shooting)..

Take this season..

Perk in november averaged 7.9PPG 5.1RPG 1.6BLK in 25MPG
Rondo in november aveargaed 8.3PPG 5.4APG 3.9REB 1.7STL 32.8MPG

DECEMBER(ONE MONTH DIFFERENCE)
Perk averaged 6.2PPG 6.2RPG 1.0BLK in 23.4MPG
Rondo averaged 10.7PPG 5.1APG 4.1RPG 2.0STL in 30.6MPG

So Rondo averaged less minutes but produced a lot better(showing more consistency/effeciency and we only see more progress this month) while Perk avergaed one minute less and pretty much stayed the same(and we don't see much difference, same bad moves, and no offense BUT GREAT DEFENSE..Rondo in his 2nd i said 2nd year and starting for the first season is improving rapidly while Perk just doesn't seem to be getting it offensively..key word offense not defense

Now Rondo brings it on offense and defense(but needs to work on staying in front of man) while Perk is just defense, that's why Rondo is better and shows more potential..Rondo's offense is loads better than Perk while Perk's defense is better than Rondo's but not at same magnitude as Rondo's offense is better than his...

Now your probably saying your only looking at offense in which case Perk looks bad but defense he's good..Well, he's a good complement to KG(being a big body really) maybe a little foul prone on stupid mistakes cause he hasn't realized his strenght and refs hate him but he's expected to bring great defense and he provides so i say he has done his job..Rondo needs to STAY IN FRONT of his man though i will say he probably will lead the league in steals one day and he is strong at defense..So therefore, Rondo just brings it on both sides of the game while Perk brings it to one side but i will say this..PERK IS DOING EXACTLY WHAT WE WOULD NEED SOMEONE AT CENTER TO DO..He plays his D and doesn't call for shots..Only thing is i would like to have a center that might get attention therefore making it impossible for teams to ever double but not a starting center..as much as i bashed Perk's offense i don't want someone starting over him i just want some backup for him in the playoffs...

Now onto this year in the playoffs maybe, Perk will hurt us in a series because teams will use him to double off him and he's just a nobody on offense anyway unless he gets a board but on defense he can help change the game(he won't change it but KG will) Perk holding his ground in the middle mean KG can go all over the place and reak havoc on the defensive end..Now if i was to tell you one player who would hurt us in the playoffs i would say maybe Perk, but ultimately Doc ;D

[runrondo]

Oh yeah and forgot to add right now we don't NEED anything..but if the Pistons expose our backup PG with pressure then i'll say we need a backup PG by the end of the season...but who knows, maybe TA or House will get the ability to bring the ball up under pressure..no one seems to do that to them except the Pistons..I'd like a big backup just to add some height, but i want Big baby to play off the bench..but i'd wait when we aren't playing so amazing to go for this..

[findawgg]

1. Detroit DID expose Bostons need for a reasonable back up at the point, there ability to pressure the ball with Rondo on the bench in the second half cost Boston the game.

2. Tony Allen does not possess the skill set or the mentality to be a back up point guard. He is not a good enough ball handler, and he makes bad decisions when asked to run the offense.

3. House is a reasonable stop gap at the point and is good enough to run the team at a limited capacity in the half court set, but he can't handle defensive pressure in the back court.

Boston needs a back up at the point come playoff time, because teams are going to throw all sorts of pressure at them when Rondo is on the bench.

--Fin

[cfoo]

See I disagree with this. We had one game we struggled against the press and suddenly we need a backup pg. Teams have thrown the press at us since then, and we have been fine combating it. There are ways to combat the press and imo it was more about the way our wing players were not spacing the floor properly. They were able to trap us in the full court because we weren't running off the defender properly. I suggest people watch the game again, and watch what we've been doing since. I guarentee we blow out Detroit this time around and there are no problems with the press. Saying we need one and this is an obvious weakness is silly. IMO, this is a case of people looking for something to talk about and find a weakness and there is no flaw. The only flaw was we weren't prepared for it. Now we are.....

[eja117]

I guess this will be partly settled tonite. I am more likely to watch tonite's game. I don't have cable so I don't get to see much, but tonite Nodd is home from college and the wife has rented a romantic comedy. I am out the door.

[findawgg]

It's not a knee jerk response. House is adequate in the half court but isn't an end line to end line pg particularly with pressure and neither is Tony Allen. The pundits of the sporting world has contended from the beginning that Boston has a gaping hole at the point. I have disagreed because I thought Rondo was up to the task, I have agreed with the pundits that Boston doesn't have an adequate option off the bench to sub in for Rondo. They can get away with it against the middle road teams, but they are not going to get away with it against teams that are deep enough to put pressure on the ball end line to end line. A legit back up at the point only makes Boston that much deeper.

--Fin

[cfoo]

It is a kneejerk response. House and TA are doing fine. I'm not saying we couldn't use a pg at some point to add to the end of our roster but this is something that happened one game and we weren't prepared for. It hasn't happened since, and if it kept happening then it's an issue but it's not. Bringing in a pg just takes better players off hte court. This thread should be more about how we can beat Detroit because they are our main competition vs what we need imo, because we don't need much if anything. We have a solid second unit in House,TA, Posey, Baby and Pollard. I think as the season goes I think Ainge might add a guy or two to help improve the bototm of our roster and help with insurance, but we have Scal, Powe and Pruitt who can be that as well. The main thing that has hurt us against detroit is their 3 pt shooting. We are basically mirror images of each other and we move the ball and have well rounded players and shoot a high percentage from 3 pt land. I think we take them in a 7 game series but we need to take better care of the basketball and improve our perimeter defense because it's been their 3's that have kept them in the game.

I honestly think people need to enjoy the season and stop looking for holes in our roster, because it's a whole lot of nothing. We are talking about very minute things that we already have on our roster for the most part. The same goes for saying we need a lowpost presence. KG is one of the best lowpost players in the game. Baby scored 20 battling inside last night. Perk played a solid game as well. People were saying TA couldn't get going off the bench and he scores 20 the next night. These ARE kneejerk reactions. People say we need a backup pg. WE blow out the lakers the next game without Rondo. Our entire backcourt combned Rondo, TA, House, Allen had 3 turnovers combined against Detroit last night. The press wasnt' an issue because we adjusted what we were doing and we didn't allow the trap to get set up. It has very little to do with personel. We haven't had an issue with the press against the leagues best, since the detroit game, so where is this gaping hole you speak of? I don't care what the league "pundits" say.

[cfoo]

You are basically talking about adding a pg that would play 5 minutes agame here and there if a team traps us to dribble the ball up the court. There is nothing wrong with that and maybe we could use that but TA and house are the better offensive options. If we handle the press like we've been doing and should we don't need that anyways. We have plenty of people who can handle the ball on this team. The reason I say we are a mirror image of detroit is because we have good all around players and we move the ball. If we handle the press like we should and move the ball and spread the floor and run off the defender, and push the tempo, the pg should not be handling the ball against a trap. The pg should not be handling the ball that much anyways. We let the trap get set up that one game because we were walking hte ball up and our wing players were not running off the defender and the trap was set up. The pg's job in our offense is to initiate the offense. ROndo is the one true pg we have, but TA and House have been doing well playing their roles as well. I think all 3 guys fit our offense well.

If you look at our roster

These guys are pretty much locked

starters
Rondo, Allen, Pierce, Garnett, Perk
Bench
House, TA, Posey, Baby, Pollard

Then we have Pruitt, Scal, POwe as insurance and for scenarios. These are the guys that have been getting a lot of dnp coaches decision. We could add some insurance for Posey or TA because we might need another perimeter defender. We let Wallace go because we didn't feel like he was ready to step in if need be. We might do the same with Pruitt. We could use a pg in there maybe. We could use maybe another big man to give us insurance if Pollard can't go. These are things we could improve and use but it's very minute. You are basically talking about the final 2 spots on the active roster and as the season goes I think we will see ainge use those 2 active spots, and the 3 inactive spots to improve that possibly. Right now we have an excellent 9 or 10 man rotation with Scal, Powe and Pruitt providing depth which is fine. We actually have an 11 man rotation if you count Scal playing in certain scenarios. The real issue is improving what we are doing on the court vs the players we have. We are doing a great job of that and have adjusted and improved each game.

The entire we need a pg thing comes from a breakdown we had in the first detroit game because we weren't prepared to handle it, and it's because people had a kneejerk reaction that we suddenly need a pg. It hasn't been a problem since. The problem is these "socalled" experts don't understand what we are trying to do and that these things can be corrected if we do what we are supposed to.

Really watch the celtics sometime because it's an impressive thing we are seeing here. This team is becoming very very good. House is the perfect backup pg for this team and people are saying we need a pg....... Do you really think GP is better than Eddie House at this point in his career? Look at DEtroit. Who is their backup to Chauncey. It's lindsay hunter who is the same thing. He was a guard who wasn't a pg, but he could shoot it and he became a great backup. House is awesome.. He's better than Hunter. AInge is an absolute genius for bringing House here to be our backup pg and people are saying we need more and I just don't see it. Do we really want a pg who can dribble and has "experience"? OR do we want a backup pg who can bring the ball up and has an actual offensive game? I'll take what's behind door #2. If we sign GP we are basically signing Eric Snow as far as I'm concerned. We don't need him. House is great. TA compliments him well and can bring defense better than the glove at this point in his career as well and also has a better offensive game. I have a feeling Pruett is going to be the man as well. The same goes for Perk, Baby and everyone. This team is so good and they have the right mindset and keep getting better.

[eja117]

I think last nite proved what we need are refs that don't call phantom fouls on KG, and we need one or two players to step up and stop watching the big three and consistently give us good play every single nite, and I think those guys have to be Tony Allen and Big Baby, and to a lesser extent Rondo. When one or two of those guys step up with 12 - 18 points and some big plays the team is totally unbeatable. I don't think we need to bring players is as much as these guys get better. But maybe they can't get that good and we do need someone.
I don't think the bench of Detroit is so much better than ours.

[runrondo]

Detroit won't get much better since they've been together for so long so they've already reached their ceiling(or they'll improve a little) while the Celtics have been together for 32 games and their offense(looks a little sluggish lately) will improve greatly and so will the other parts of game by playoff time...still think we may want a Big guy in case Pollard hurts his back again but yeah, i think Pruitt could be that other PG but he doesn't get the chance..

[eja117]

I think in this big trading offseason we gave away one too many young guys. I would happily give Pruit, Powe, and our 1rst for Delonte or Gomes. I wouldn't be surprised if the Wolves would do it. Maybe we can get someone to take a Scala. Probably not.

Maybe a still not too old vet who is out of ball like Bob Sura. Justin Reed. Oriene Green.

[cfoo]

House is basically Delonte. He's a better shooter than Delonte though imo. He has more range and can shoot in traffic. Delonte was more of an open jump shooter. Both guys are combo guards. We have Delonte and House, who plays? It's basically redundant.

[eja117]

Delonte. Delonte was a better creator, rebounder and blocker. Granted House steals better. I think House plays like a sg who short, whereas Delonte plays like a true combo guard, which is an upgrade. Delonte has a good 35% pg in him. House has 20% and Tony Allen has 5%. This would allow House to move over to sg, TA to sometimes play sf, and Posey to sometimes play pf, and it would give us more depth and an ability to go with a hot hand and sit players going thru slumps. Right now we have to constantly hope someone helps the big three. With an extra guy we'd know somebody would

[kofanis0880]

Ryan Gomes is a free agent.

[cfoo]

Right now we have a 2nd team of House, TA, Posey, Baby and Pollard and all of them have been pretty solid so far. Our bench is very good. We haven't even seen what Gabe Pruitt can do yet. We could use another pg and a big man and a wing player mixed in there, but it's not this pressing need. As the season goes these things will work themselves out. We have powe sitting there not able to get time and people want to bring Gomes back and we don't need him. I'd rather give the time to Baby. When ainge dealt those guys he basically picked and chose who were hte best options and we kept Rondo and replaced Delonte with House. We decided to go with Baby and Powe over Gomes and it was the right call. He upgraded Wally and Al to Allen and KG in the process and brought in Posey. Nothing against those guys they are good players but we pretty much have what we need as far as roleplayers. We could use another guard but we haven't even seen what Pruitt can do yet. .