Kudos to Doc

[cfoo]

I'm just going to compliment Doc because I feel like it. Since if we were sucking it would be his fault and he never gets any credit when we do well. We are running a good offense and defense and this team is farther along then a lot of people expected. Doc deserves a lot of credit for that imo. We are running more pick and rolls and the team is flowing really well for the most part. Sure we can improve in every facet but this team is really far along and is doing really well for where we are in the season. I like the direction this team is taking. Can we improve? sure but the core direction and what we are doing is great.

[cfoo]

Also besides the offense and defense we are running and how we are spacing, I have noticed doc call plays in crunchtime and also coming out of a timeouts that have been money. I've noticed this a ton of times. Doc is a good coach people. He also knows how to deal with players and isnt an egomaniac and has this team really bonded and has stepped aside and lets KG and the players bond.

Doc is an A so far in my book. the entire team is an A so far. We aren't an A+ yet but it's still early. Doc Rivers is a "good coach". quote.

(We are probably more realistically a B considering where this team can be, But for where we are in the season, I'm giving us an A.)

[CelticsLoyalist]

We can give some thanks to Thibideaux as well. Doc has been allowed to focus more on the plays and offense. I have always thought Doc could coach us because he is a players coach but realistically he's not that good and these players are making him look better than he is. But I digress, I must give credit where credit is due. He is really getting to these players and they are responding. This offseason has got to be the biggest turnaround a team has every done. From the player moves to the coaching moves. We lost some and we got a whole lot back. I still check in on Al and Gomes and they are doing very well. Almost beat the Spurs tonight. I miss Al a lot. He is a real monster inside for the Wolves. I mean he is a true low post PF/C.

[cfoo]

I never said Doc was the greatest coach in the world but he is a good coach. Compared to a majority of coaches I would still say he is a top coach. The thing with Doc is he knows his limitations. He is a realist and a good guy and he knows the basics of what it takes to win. He's not out there like Nellie trying to do too much. He's also not a control freak like a lot of coaches. He's basic in his approach and that is his strength imo..... He also understands the game from an x's and o's perspective. He's not a genius but he's good. He's just a solid all around coach imo. That's the best compliment I can give him, and he's the type of coach I'd want coaching this team in all honesty.

[CelticsLoyalist]

I agree. Even Pat Riley was just telling his player shoot the ball shoot it!!! It was like are you crazy!? Make them run a play. Last thing you want is for ball hog mentality to take hold. Maybe thats why they grabbed JWill back in the day, Walker and now Davis. Doc is good as long as we have good players. He definitely cannot mold young guys into stars. He needs proven vets to make an impact. Whatever tho. He is doing great for us now and I should shut up and stop complaining!

[cfoo]

See I think he did a decent job bringing the young guys along. He's not a genius but Jefferson came along nicely, so did gomes and west. Rondo and Perk are coming along. So is big baby and pruitt. Doc didn't hurt those guys. He has Rondo and Perk in his starting lineup and is giving them a ton of responsibility..... He is good for the young guys. I just think he's a solid all around coach. He took orlando which was a young team and did well with it, so saying he needs vets is a misnomer.

[cfoo]

I think some people expect doc to do everything and Doc has no issue letting Pruitt develop in the dleague and let some of the assistants bring Baby along. I'm sure he puts his two cents in as well. But that is his strength. He is the head coach and doesn't need to do everything. I honestly think if Doc really wanted to concentrate on being a defensive guru he would do well at it, but he has assistants for that. He's a good head coach and sees the big picture.

[CelticsLoyalist]

I guess what I meant was Doc cant win with younguns. He did fine getting the most out of them, but I just feel he wasn't able to make a team full of young guys win. Plus, the young guys we have now are having an easier time with their games due to the strength of the vets. It's easier for players like Big Baby who was already a decent all round player to come into a lineup featuring Allen, P2 and KG. Heck I think I would look good with those guys. He was coach of the year in Orlando and yes he brought them to the playoffs, still it's the proven allstars that are making him look great when he is just a good coach. It's like OBrien. We all loved that guy and he is probably as good a coach as Doc. He couldn't get it done with a bunch of young guys and no all/super stars. Imagine if he was still here with these 3!

[cfoo]

See I think Obrien had no offense. Obrien gave too much free reign to the players. Doc does actually call plays and have a disciplined offense Obie was a players coach to a fault imo. I think Doc is a much better coach than Obie.

I think even with the young guys this team would have been much improved under Doc this year. Last year he was dealing with a very inexperienced team and was trying to get them to play into a system, plus he was dealing with a ton of injuries and a team that was extremely young and who's focus was not to win last year. Last year we were more trying to just get guys time and acclimated and get into the lottery much like you see teams like Seattle doing this year..

[CelticsLoyalist]

Now, that I cant argue with Obie was like Pat Riley tonight. SHOOT IT SHOOT IT!!!! LOL! Doc is better in that area. You are right. I was just pointing out how a real NBA coach could be leading this team right now. Its just so darn good!

[cfoo]

I know what you are saying. I just don't think it's fair. Is Pierce not a good player because he has Garnett and Allen. Pierce struggled on bad teams. It takes a culmination of a lot of good pieces is the point. People got on Pierce for the same reasons, saying Pierce wasn't doing this or that, and that's not true. The team just sucked.

[cfoo]

Red Auerbach even had some rough years in the culmination of this team. Without Cousy and Russell we wouldn't be talking abut Red Auerbach and the celtics dynasty. I'm sure when the C's first started and they sucked noone was saying how great Auerbach was then. They probably thought he sucked. Now he's a legend. I'm not comparing Doc to Red but the point is there. You can be a great coach on a bad team, but it's still going to be a bad team. Most people blamed doc for last year when it was just a bad team. The same can be said for being a great player on a bad team. You aren't going to be regarded as a great player until you are on a good team. It's a hypocrisy i tell you.

Once Doc wins a few championships with this team maybe he will get credit, but I doubt it because people just have that mindset where he had garnett and pierce and allen and never won anything before he had those guys. What was the last team you saw win that didnt have good players? Have you ever seen a team with all rookies and young players and no talent win anything? Just look at seattle this year. They are young. They are the celtics of last year and they suck. It's not the coaches fault. They are building something and are going through their growing pains just like we were and their coach is a good coach to my knowledge.

Do the players make the coach or does the coach make the players? Any good coach will say it's the players that make the coach. Even Red Auerbach when Mchale was drafted, this just shows what kind of coach he was, said Mchale just do what you do and make me look good. He even let Russell coach and the team still won. Was Red Auerbach really a great coach? Yes he was because he let Russell do that. He knew at that point the team could coach itself. it's the same thign as being a good manager of people. A good manager realizes where his boundaries are, and doesn't overly tinker. He sets the guidelines and the approach the team should take and knows who can do what.

Doc is a good coach. If you notice now that Doc has good players, he doesn't tinker with the lineup so much. He lets players play. So in essence saying because he needs vets or good players to be a good coach is really missing the point of what makes a good coach in the first place. He didn't hurt the young guys. He let them play. There is not a young player that didn't get minutes under Doc. They just weren't very good and he didn't leave them out there too much to kill them either.

People just need to admit that they need to blame someone and it's usually the coach, which is false in this case. The coach never gets credit either because it's the players around him. I'm telling you though Doc is a good coach. lol.... He's one of the better coaches in the league. He doesn't know everything and he doesn't even say all the right things, but his approach is what makes him one of the best coaches around. If we win it wont be completely his doing, and if we lose it won't be either. It was the same thing with Walker a few years back. EVeryone blamed Antoine when the team just wasn't very good. Same with Pierce. Put Antoine on a good team and he's winning championships because he is what he is. Same with Pierce or Doc or whoever. Would Parish or Mchale be regarded for who they are if they weren't traded to the celtics? Would magic have been magic without Kareem? Would Garnett and Ray and Pierce be winning without each other? It's all the same. Team sport. It takes a culmination of players and coaches that have talent to win.

[Roadrunner]

I think Doc should be judged on what he was asked to do. Last year, he was told to develop the younger players. He did, however the team lost a lot of games. This year, he was asked to win a championship. Not there yet, but looking good.

[cfoo]

Well that's the thing is coaches are generally judged on wins and losses but coaching is more than that. I think Doc has done everything asked of him so far. Last year winning wasn't our main goal. This year it is and we are 13-2. I always respected Doc because he's a good guy and he isn't out there like a control freak either demeaning the players and with this win or lose attitude or trying to protect himself and save his job. He's a team guy. He lets the players play and voice their opinion and utiliize their strengths. You never hear doc demean a player. If he doesn't like something he'll tell you. If he does he'll do the same. He doesn't think he knows everything. He's fairly good at adjusting during games. That's not his strongest asset but he's pretty good at it. I've seen him make some great adjustments and calls during the games. Most of what he's done has made sense to me. It doesn't always work but he's not perfect and neither are the players executing what he wants sometimes. If I played for Doc I'd have faith in him that he can lead us to a championship and I think the players have that trust in Doc and that's the main thing. If 2 years from now we haven't won and the players start losing faith in Doc, that's another story. But I don't think that will happen.

[DERRENMATTS]

Sorry, I haven't read the posts above (it might take me an hour to go over what you guys have discussed), but I just wanted to throw this in there.

Doc has been yelling at our players to run and push the tempo--but either they are not listening, or they aren't capable of doing it. I'd think its the former, because we certainly have the players to be an uptempo team.

Why do we play slow-down-ball, when its clear that pushing the tempo makes us a better team? Tommy Heinsohn harps on this too, and I'm with him. Its quite evident how much easier the game is for us when we are pushing the tempo.