I'm not ready to drop Telfair yet

[Deleted]

Do we really need another stint of useless PGs like Chucky Atkins or a Damon stoudamire? I think we're pretty much set with Rajon Rondo as our starter and Delonte West coming in as spot-up starter at teh 1-2 position. Then we have our Eddie House version 3-point threat in Allen Ray.

I just don't see what's the point throwing a 1 year contract at someone who won't even give us anything worth throwning money for. If anything we should be looking for a veteran frontman who can come-in at either center/pf for defensive purposes. Or, take a chance with a Marcus Camby.
Link to P

[cfoo]

Plus we have TA if he comes back healthy. Rondo, West, Ray and Allen is plenty of depth imo.

[Roadrunner]

I think our depth at the PG position is good. However, I do like Conley.

[DERRENMATTS]

Getting Conley will allow us to stop using non-PG's at the PG spot. As much as they may try, Delonte, Allen and Allan Ray are not real PG's.

[eja117]

That's it. i want to have it out on this right now.
Why is Delonte or even Ray not a "real" point guard? Because you say he's not? So we've got this guy under 6ft 5 who has led the team in assists two years in a row and he's not a "real" point guard.
So say you have a fake point guard who as a result of trying as he might consistently out plays other real point guards, what is better? I'd rather have the fake point guard who actually plays the position better and makes the team better than the real point guard (cough cough Bassy) who doesn't play as well.
Here are some questions to ask about real point guards who compete against West. Do they get as many assist? Do they get as few turnovers and fouls? What are their shooting percentages? How many points do they score? How many rebounds do they get? How many steals and blocks do they get? Do they make the team around them better and especially do they make the team win more. Those are the only things you need to compare when comparing real point guards to fake ones.
If Dikembe Mutumbo did all those things better than Steve Nash I'd play him at the point guard position and beat the heck out of other teams while they labeled him a not real point guard.
And you can put that on Loy's Place if you want.

[cfoo]

I think Delonte is a very solid pg. He isn't the same type of pg that Rondo is but he can be a good pg as well. I think he plays the point well. He isn't as quick off the dribble and cant break down a defense like Rondo does and doesn't have the speed on the break but Delonte is pretty quick still. Delonte imo is a classic combo guard. He is a solid pg and a solid sg imo. Speaking of good pgs Billups is going to be a free agent this summer. There's a guy that isn't a "real" pg by some people's standards. Billups still is an awesome pg. The term "true" pg has changed over the years. A "true" pg used to be someone who ran the offense. Now a "true" pg is someone like cousy who is just a playmaker and a creator for people. Rondo is a "true" pg, but Delonte is a playmaker as well.

[Roadrunner]

I am thinking the same, that Delonte is more of a combo guard than a true PG. Plus I like the idea of Delonte coming off the bench, and bring instant offense.

[cfoo]

I'd really like to see this team simplify things and let Rondo loose and see what he does. They started to do that late in the season, and I hope we see more of that. That's the thing with a true pg imo. You just have to let them loose. Cousy was that way where he just played free and easy, and I think Rondo if he starts doing that will be awesome. Nash is the same way. Just let them do their thing. With Delonte I think the team is more reliant on ball movement and finding the open shot and having an actual offense and playcall.

[DERRENMATTS]

I guess anyone can be a PG, right Eja? Pierce can handle the ball some, and he makes some nice passes here and there, so I guess he should be considered a PG.

I don't believe my comment was off base at all. Delonte isn't a real PG (and neither are Tony Allen or Allan Ray). He's a solid 'basketball' player, but I wouldn't call him a "real" PG.

[freshnthehouse]

I dont mind bringing in a bargain basement PG. I'd rather have a guy like Chucky Adkins on the roster over Allen Ray. Chucko could teach Rondo a thing or two, and it never hurts to have a vet PG just in case of injuries.

[CelticsLoyalist]

derrenmatts said:

Getting Conley will allow us to stop using non-PG's at the PG spot. As much as they may try, Delonte, Allen and Allan Ray are not real PG's.

If we land Oden, we have to get Conley. At least that's what the rumormill says. That would entail some major trades to go down. I wonder if this is even a consideration by Danny...

Seems easier said than done. Or is it?

[freshnthehouse]

Giving up anything of value for Conley is pointless. why give up talent from other spots to get a prospect PG when we already have a pretty prospect PG on the roster? The only this would make sense is if DA thinks conley is the real deal and he makes rondo the centerpiece in a trade to get him.

[cfoo]

derrenmatts said:

I guess anyone can be a PG, right Eja? Pierce can handle the ball some, and he makes some nice passes here and there, so I guess he should be considered a PG.

I don't believe my comment was off base at all. Delonte isn't a real PG (and neither are Tony Allen or Allan Ray). He's a solid 'basketball' player, but I wouldn't call him a "real" PG.

See I disagree with this. If Pierce were to play pg, sure he could play there, but he would be playing out of position. PG is one of Delonte's stronger positions. Much moreso than Allen and Ray. I personally think he is just as good a pg as he is an off guard. I don't think he is a great pg like the magic's and mark price and stockton, cousy. I dont even think he's on the level of a mike bibby, but he's still a decent pg. I think it's more a matter of how good he is than anything. As an off guard he isn't the greatest off guard in the world either. The same argument could be made that he isn't a "real" sg either. I think Delonte says it best himself where he just says he's a basketball player to avoid any confusion such as this.. I personally believe Delonte is a rare player that can play pg and sg and be equally successful at both. I think TA is much more suited as a sg. SAme goes for Pierce, and RAy I believe isn't as good at the point as Delonte is either. Right now Delonte is the 2nd best pg we have on our roster and it wasn't long ago he was the best pg we had.

[eja117]

Ok Derren. You were right that if we had Conley we wouldn't have to play non-pgs at the position. But so what? Will we be better? We weren't when we played Bassy there. Why can't a combo guard play the pg position better than some pgs? In fact if Rondo can't create at the pg position in a half court offense and can only create on the fast break maybe Rondo is the fake pg and West is the true one if West does the better job. I'm just saying labels/schmables play the 5 players that play the positions and basketball best and make the team better. Now if you are saying playing Conley instead of West will make the team better and that is the reason we would be better off that's different. But for now West has played the position, on average, better than any other Celtic. I'm sure Rondo will pass him soon if not already, and maybe Conley would too, but I have doubts that Conley would get our team to win more than West.
I guess if West is 6 ft 3 that's not too short for the position of sg, at least when the other sg is 6ft 5 or less, but some teams play guys that are 6ft 8 there, which is why I think it makes the most sense for West to get like 15 miuntes at pg and 5 at sg a night. Something like that. That basically makes him backup point and 3rd sg, but I definitely think it is waaayyy to early to be drafting or trading to try to get West off the court.

[cfoo]

The way I see it is this

Pierce is a 3=2.
Allen is a 2=3>1
Ray is a 2>1
West is a 1=2
Rondo is a 1

In other words Rondo is a true pg, who can play some off guard at times, but he's pretty much a true pg imo. At off guard he's out of position. West is a classic combo guard. He isn't out of position at pg or shooting guard. RAy doesn't have the passing skills that West posesses or the intellect and feel for the game to play the point as well as West does imo. He's more of just a scorer. He's probably more suited for that than Allen but I don't think either guy is or will ever be as good a pg as West. Pierce is a point forward of sorts/scorer/rebounder and just an all around complete basketball player. I personally think Delonte is a very poor man's version of Jerry West who happens to have the same last name. Danny Ainge is another guy. Both are clutch. Both are classic combo guards.