cfoo
Welcome To Celtics Green!
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Post by cfoo on Mar 3, 2007 18:28:14 GMT -5
Say we trade Green and Jefferson and our #1 for Oden. Do you think fans wouldn't be patient? I think the fans would be more excited than ever to have Greg Oden in Boston. Pierce and Oden wouldn't be that far off anyways. Name me a better potential 1/2 punch in the league. Surround those 2 guys with solid roleplayers and we have a championship.
How many wing players do you need? How many lowpost guys do you need? The teams that win usually have the most dominant ones and utilize those guys. And have roleplayers aroudn those guys. There aren't enough balls to go around to win with a team that has multiple wings. That Lakers team that signed all those guys trying to go the matchup route and adding Malone and Payton just proved that more stars doesn't exactly mean more championships.
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cfoo
Welcome To Celtics Green!
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Post by cfoo on Mar 3, 2007 18:42:24 GMT -5
And I'm not saying we can't win with Pierce, Jefferson and solid guys around them either. The players around them just have to be that much better. Take Detroit for example. billups and Wallace are both fairly dominant but they had Rip, Sheed, and Prince who are all good in their own right. If we expect to win with Pierce and Jefferson we need to be very solid at every position. Hence the Gasol scenario. Gasol, Jefferson, Pierce, Green, Rondo/West would be pretty good. Gasol, Jefferson, durant, Green, Rondo/West would be the same thing but I tend to think that team would take a lot of patience. I don't see why we'd trade Pierce. Maybe we'd package Green to get Gasol but why would memphis do that? I honestly believe the two best scenarios that get us a championship is to get Oden, and trade whatever to get him if we dont get the #1, or if we can't then trade our pick for GAsol.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Mar 3, 2007 18:45:08 GMT -5
Bibby is a short term fix. He's getting old and doesn't look like the player he was a few years ago. I think Bibby is a product of playing in a system that suits his strengths--I don't know if he'll replicate his numbers playing outside of the Princeton offense. THat's exactly why I think he'd be a good fit. With all these young guys need ing new deals in the near future, the last thing we need is to be hand0cuffed to another large deal. And like I said earlier, Bibby's deal expires right when we need to decide what to do with Rondo.
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Post by eja117 on Mar 3, 2007 18:46:27 GMT -5
to answer the earlier question I think Al can be a top 4 big in the East in the next 3-4 years. I think GG and Rondo can be top 7 maybe in the league, and I think Durant can be top 2, so I don't really want to trade all that for Oden who I think will be a top big but maybe not THE top.
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Post by eja117 on Mar 3, 2007 18:49:16 GMT -5
Better 1/2 punches. Not easy. Maybe Durant/Gasol. Maybe Shaq/Wade. Maybe Dirk/Howard Maybe Nash/Amare/Marion Duncan/Parker Plus there are still some guys waiting for a worthy sidekick like D Howard, Emeka, Kobe, KG, Lebron
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Post by freshnthehouse on Mar 3, 2007 18:49:42 GMT -5
The problem with that Fresh is how many teams win with that kind of style? The Suns havent won anything. The teams that win have a dominant frontline usually that can defend. Unless you are Jordan. And those bulls teams had some very good defensive players. Jefferson, Durant, Pierce doesn't strike fear in anyone defensively. I still say having a dominant 7 footer is the best matchup problem you can have offensively and defensively. Well of course it would be best to have a dominant 7 footer, but they dont exactly grow on trees. The post I made refers to what I think we should do if we get Durant. I've already made it pretty clear that I'd prefer Oden. But we can still make some noise if we get a player as talented as Durant.
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cfoo
Welcome To Celtics Green!
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Post by cfoo on Mar 3, 2007 18:51:41 GMT -5
The thing with Durant is I don't think wing players impact a game like a big guy can. Wing players are what they are, they are primarily scorers but they don't change the whole complexity of the game the same way. Just look at Carmelo. I think Durant is better, but Carmelo was a dominant college player with the same kind of hype and he has helped his team become a good team, but Denver isn't that good. Cleveland is the same thing. Unless you are Bird or Jordan who play all facets of teh game I don't see it happening and Bird still had a great frontline alongside him. CArmelo is basically a poor man's bird because he does play all facets and is a floor leader of sorts, but you have to be really really great to win from that position. DO you really think Durant has the intellect of a Bird or a Jordan to be that kind of floor leader?
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Post by eja117 on Mar 3, 2007 18:51:52 GMT -5
Ok let me ask it this way. If the draft had Oden and Lebron who would you take, cause I think it's a lot like that. I think I'd take Bron
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Post by freshnthehouse on Mar 3, 2007 18:53:26 GMT -5
I know people might think I'm nuts but if we don't end up with the #1 I would do whatever I could to get Oden. Even trade Jefferson. i'm not saying I would do that or it would be my first option but getting Oden would be huge. Ohio State is ranked #1 in the country for a reason. Whoever gets that guy is going to be a dominant team for the next decade and a half. I'm not saying we can't compete with that by getting Gasol or someone to go with Jefferson, but Oden is that good. We were able to compete with and beat Wilt and KAreem by putting a solid group of players together and it can happen again. We did have Bird, Mchale and Parish though and Bill Russell. Anone who wouldnt trae AlJeff for Oden is nuts. Anyone who wouldnt trade out entire lineup for Oden is nuts. Any GM that scores Oden and doesnt immedeately hang up on Ainge when he inquires about Oden is nuts. Like I've said a million times. . . There is absolutely no chance of Oden being traded. None. You do not trade 19 year old franchise big men.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Mar 3, 2007 18:57:58 GMT -5
The thing with Durant is I don't think wing players impact a game like a big guy can. Wing players are what they are, they are primarily scorers but they don't change the whole complexity of the game the same way. Just look at Carmelo. I think Durant is better, but Carmelo was a dominant college player with the same kind of hype and he has helped his team become a good team, but Denver isn't that good. Cleveland is the same thing. Unless you are Bird or Jordan who play all facets of teh game I don't see it happening and Bird still had a great frontline alongside him. Yes, scoring a big man is def. the easiest way to win a championship. Look at the all-time big men. All of them besides Ewing have a title, and most of them have more than one. That being said, I'd still do a backflip if we landed the number two pick. Oden is def. the brass ring in this draft, but Durant is going to be unreal as well. THere isnt a big man in the NBA right now that i would trade Durant for.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Mar 3, 2007 19:01:25 GMT -5
Ok let me ask it this way. If the draft had Oden and Lebron who would you take, cause I think it's a lot like that. I think I'd take Bron Thats a very good way of putting it. I dunno if I'd put Durant at Leborn's level* yet, but he's about as close as you can get. But if I had to choose, I'd take Oden. YOu cant go wrong with either of them. *I dont want this to seem like I'm downplaying Durant's ability, I just think that Lebron is out of this world. IMO he is the best player in the game, and will prolly go down as one of the 10 best players ever.
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cfoo
Welcome To Celtics Green!
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Post by cfoo on Mar 3, 2007 19:03:02 GMT -5
Well that's the thing Fresh. Like I said whoever trades that pick is loopy. It's the easiest way to win a championship. And whoever gets Oden will win. That's not to say it can't be done in other ways though. Look at Detroit. Look at the Celtics teams in the 70's. There are other ways to win, but you need to do it from all positions and play a style that is really solid. Those detroit teams and those 70 celtics teams are perfect examples because they were just that. They had a great philosophy, Tom Heinsohn being one and Larry Brown being the other, plus they had solid players at every position.
The problem with that is we have Doc Rivers as our coach and no apparent philosophy in sight right now with Doc's lineup shuffling.
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Post by eja117 on Mar 3, 2007 19:05:08 GMT -5
Malone, Barkley, KG, Brand, Yao, Dirk, and Amare/Marion all don't have championships and those last two have one of the top 10 pgs ever passing to them. It's not fair to compare those guys to PP or even Melo. You'd have to compare them to the All-NBA guys like Bron, and Kobe and TMac
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cfoo
Welcome To Celtics Green!
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Post by cfoo on Mar 3, 2007 19:11:50 GMT -5
TMac is overrated. KG and Dirk I would take any day. I'd even take Pierce over TMac.
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Post by eja117 on Mar 3, 2007 19:12:37 GMT -5
So would I seeing as how his teams have never been good and he seems to be getting hurt every other week
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