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Post by DERRENMATTS on Feb 2, 2007 2:04:56 GMT -5
I know I will get some flack for sticking up for Telfair, since he has been demoted to the 3rd string PG, but I will stick with my gut feeling about Bassy--he will make a comeback and prove to be worthy of being a starter. It might take him the offseason to work out his game and get back on track, but I expect him to fight his way back into competition.
First, I want to make it clear that Rajon is the more talented PG who has a lot more skills to work with. He should be the starting PG instead of Delonte right now (Lefty should be playing the 2). I'm a fan of Rondo and I'm pulling for him as well. He's an incredible talent and so much fun to watch. I expect Rajon to get much better as well, and that just makes the PG competition more fun to watch. I'm not saying Telfair will beat out Rajon for the starting spot. He may be able to, but what I'm saying is that Telfair will resurface again and prove to be worthy of being a starter for us.
I stuck with my gut feeling about Tony Allen when he was a forgotten man, and I will trust my gut instinct again for Telfair. Even at this low point for him, I can see that competitor's fire in him as soon as he gets into the lane and hits a layup. He's got that moxie about him that comes alive when he gets to play his game. There's a competitive fire in him that makes me a believer in him. He's a fighter and won't back down, and he has the will power to improve his game.
Telfair is much more talented than what we are seeing right now. We are only seeing Telfair's struggles as he adjust his game. He's got a lot to offer, but he's trying to figure out how to make it work. Doc has put the clamps on both Telfair and Rajon, but Rajon gets to break free more often and create plays because he's so talented and athletic. Telfair needs the ball to orchestrate the offense, but the ball is always taken out of his hands in our current offensive system.
But I've got confidence in Sebastian that he'll work out his kinks and begin to excite the fans again. You can mark my words.
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Post by Roadrunner on Feb 2, 2007 23:00:31 GMT -5
Telfair has no work ethic. He would be the poster boy for the AAU players being coddled all their life. UCONN, w/ 3 first round picks, 1 second round pick, and 1 NDBL selection couldn't beat a G Mason team that didn't have a single player drafted. Why? Because the UCONN players were coddled through life, and G Mason players worked hard, got it done.
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Post by The Eye of the Q is upon you! on Feb 3, 2007 0:11:02 GMT -5
Telfair has no work ethic. He would be the poster boy for the AAU players being coddled all their life. UCONN, w/ 3 first round picks, 1 second round pick, and 1 NDBL selection couldn't beat a G Mason team that didn't have a single player drafted. Why? Because the UCONN players were coddled through life, and G Mason players worked hard, got it done. George Mason was a once in a lifetime story about a small school making it big. Kind of like Hickory in Hoosiers. Not sure how things will work out for Telfair. I thought he was inconsistent.
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Post by Roadrunner on Feb 3, 2007 16:28:27 GMT -5
The issue w/ Telfair is that his mind operates like Marbury. Telfair got a second chance w/ this team, and it is literally going up in smokes.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Feb 3, 2007 18:56:25 GMT -5
No, Telfair is a hard worker. He kicks his own butt in the offseasons to get into top shape. Last season, he went to Europe to work out with his brother Jamel Thomas, who plays international ball. Jamel has been working hard with Telfair since his high school days and some of the things he has Telfair doing are just killer workouts. This is what makes me think that he'll be back next season with an improved game. He knows what needs to be worked on (defense and improving his jumper) and that's what he'll be focusing to improve.
But with each game, Rajon proves that he is worhty of the starting spot and the distance between him and Telfair increases. Bassy will need to make a big jump to make up ground. I think he's up to it.
Ultimately, Sebastian may lose out to Rajon because Rondo has been stellar on both ends of the floor. But Telfair can definitely improve his own game significantly over where he is now--and that's what I'm banking on.
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Post by The Eye of the Q is upon you! on Feb 6, 2007 7:55:20 GMT -5
Derran - It's a numbers game and it is going to come down to West vs Telfair...... My monry is on West every time. Telfair, if isn't traded, will not make next year's team.
OK, he probably will get a showcasing run so that he will get offered in a trade.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Feb 7, 2007 10:25:18 GMT -5
Delonte will prove to be better used at the 2. So it'll come down to Rajon and Telfair battling it out. Rajon has the best chance to secure the spot for the next 10 years because he's so darn talented. But I feel that Telfair will re-emerge and start playing much better--to the point where there might once again be a PG battle.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Feb 7, 2007 16:32:50 GMT -5
One thing that both Bassy and Rondo have to improve on is finishing at the hoop. I dont know how many times Ive seen both of them beat their man to the hoop only to blow the bunny.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Feb 8, 2007 10:40:18 GMT -5
Rondo is the better finisher, by far. Yes, he's missing some point blank layups, but the level of difficulty on the ones he misses are pretty high.
Telfair is getting more minutes on the court nowadays, and I'm starting to see him get comfortable. Doc is still taking the ball out of both their hands, and this has got to change.
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Post by eja117 on Feb 8, 2007 10:52:25 GMT -5
When Doc was a pg were his coaches always taking the ball out of his hands? He wasn't very good so maybe they were, and since he never became a great player he figured he'd be a coach and then just thought taking the ball out of the pgs hands is natural.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Feb 8, 2007 15:16:30 GMT -5
He wasn't very good so maybe they were, and since he never became a great player he figured he'd be a coach and then just thought taking the ball out of the pgs hands is natural. Doc was a damn good player. He was never a big-time scorer, but the guy knew how to run an offense and he was one of the best defensive guards of his day. But on the subject of taking the ball out of the PGs hands, often times in Atlanta they did just through the ball to Dominique and let him do his thing.
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Post by eja117 on Feb 8, 2007 15:28:17 GMT -5
After I said that I checked Doc's stats. He was an all-star one whole time in his entire career and was a sub 6 assist and sub 80% free throw shooter for his career. He also hit less than a third of his threes. The site I looked at was www.databasebasketball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=RIVERDO01His highest scoring season was 14.2, and he is at 10.9 for his career. The site makes statistical comparisons and states that in his late 20s he was about as good as Rod Strickland at that age. For his career the closest statistical matches were Kenny Anderson Doug Christie Kendal Gill Gus Williams Spud Webb I guess Strickland and Kenny had their moments. I feel confident saying Doc is not one of the best 150 pgs in NBA history, and I feel confident saying he's not one of the top 10 of his era.
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cfoo
Welcome To Celtics Green!
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Post by cfoo on Feb 8, 2007 17:41:33 GMT -5
Saying Doc was not a good player is like saying Dennis Johnson wasn't. Look at their stats. Because a pg doesn't score and doesn't get numbers doesn't mean they aren't good. Statistics and the pg position are probably the biggest misnomer in the NBA. Marbury has numbers. I'd take a player like Doc any day at the pg position.
Fresh said Doc knew how to run an offense and one of the best defensive players at his position of his day, and he is right. Where do the numbers you stated figure into that?
Saying Doc is not one of the top 150 pgs in NBA history is probably the most ridiculous thing you've ever said EJA.
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cfoo
Welcome To Celtics Green!
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Post by cfoo on Feb 8, 2007 18:00:17 GMT -5
If you want to talk statistics, Doc is 24 on the all time steal list in the history of the NBA regardless of position. 9th for pgs. He's 45th in the history of the NBA for assists regardless of position. I'm not going to count how many players on that list aren't pgs but there are at least 10 I counted, and that probably puts Doc around 30th or so all time for pgs. For someone who isn't one of the top 150 pgs ever that's a pretty good accomplishment. I would say that puts Doc Rivers pretty handily in the top 25-30 pgs of all time.
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Post by eja117 on Feb 8, 2007 18:05:59 GMT -5
Certainly no team he was on ever won a championship thanks to him playing any sort of significant role and that is the exact opposite of Dennis Johnson, who was a five time all star and one time all-NBA guy.
ESPN lists 126 pgs. When you consider the NBA has been around since the 1950s that's a lot of pgs. Certainly if Doc were around today in his prime there is no way on Earth you'd pick him for your team in the top 15.
Here are some of the pgs I'd pick ahead of him
Nash Hinrich TJ Ford Brevin Knight Rondo Kidd Jaret Jack Nate Robinson Devin Harris Cassell Livingston Billups Jameer Nelson Alston Felton
man there are so many more. Need I go on? Project that over the history of the NBA and I up my number to not even top 200 pgs. Toine used to get tons of steals too. It doesn't mean he was a great power forward. And I'm sure someone out there thinks Ron Harper was a big part of all those Bulls championships. "Knows how to run an offense" is one of the most vague claims as to how good a player was I've ever heard. Hey here's a guy with cruddy personal stats but he sure knows how to run an offense. It's right up there with the pword. As to his defensive stats he got a little less than 2 steals per game and a little more than a third of a block a game. Big whoop.
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