|
Post by The Eye of the Q is upon you! on Feb 1, 2007 21:04:03 GMT -5
I feel our luck changed completely on June 16, 1986 when the shocking death of Len Bias occured just nine days after the Celtics won their 16th and to this date our final championship.
Nothing has gone right since. There were no more good draft picks until Antione Walker and three years later Paul Pierce.
Bird and McHale lost their basketball health.
Dave Gavitt was fired and ML Carr took over.
Paul Thanksdad Ga$ton decided it was more important to make money than win championships.
Boston Garden died and was replaced by the Fleetcenter. The atmosphere was lost.
We drafted Eric Montross.
We drafted Acie Earl.
We signed out of service Pervis Ellison.
We hired Rick Pitinoto instead of Larry Brown.
Larry Bird quit.
Rick Pitinoto traded Chauncey Billups for Kenny Anderson.
Ron Mercer was a bust. Kedrick Brown (Zach Randolph) and Joe Forte (Tony Parker) were busts.
We traded FOR Vin Baker.
We traded Antione Walker for Raef LaFrentz.
We traded Raef LaFrentz and our pick (Rudy Gay, Brandon Roy, and Randy Foye) for Theo (I'll never play again) Ratliffe and Sebastion (I'm a complete bust and will be a career 3rd stringer on the worst team in the NBA) Telfair.
We lost Paul Pierce, Walter Sczczerbiak, Delonte West, Perkins, Jefferson and Tony Allen for significant amounts of time to injury.
We hired Doc Rivers as coach.
We accepted losing because we don't believe we can win and we will rely on the lottery to get Oden or Durante.
We cannot trade for veteran help because we are correctly judged to have poor talent by other GM's. Paul Pierce is our only trading piece and Ainge is correct that trading Pierce will leave the Celtics in a state where we see them..... Losers of 13 straight and a team only capable of winning 18 games a season.
If we do no more destructive trades and luck into Oden and Durant, things will improve next year with a new coach and GM.
I can go on and on and write a book about this If Dan Shaugnessy doesn't beat me to the job.
I want this posted in Loy's Blog.
|
|
|
Post by eja117 on Feb 1, 2007 21:28:51 GMT -5
Ok fine, but i'd point out some other stuff that seemed either good or at least didn't bother me.
We made the playoffs on many occasions and the Eastern Conference Finals at least once.
We got a three time all-star with the 6th pick (Toine)
We got a multiple all-star with the 10th pick
We got a guy who is averaging 16.5 and 10 at age 21 with the last pick in the lottery.
We got a guy who was predicted to go #3 at #18.
We drafted like 4 second rounders and got an undrafted guy who will have careers in the league and one made the all rookie 2nd team I think
DA became GM
We are guaranteed a top 5 pick in a talent heavy draft
We have about 10 trillion wings so we don't need Roy or Foye or Gay, and Foye and Gay suck this year but Theo's huge contract and Bassy come off the books after next year.
Other teams don't trade with us cause we have a gm that insists on not trading away our talent for other team's problems.
We have a new owner
We have players who go to kid's plays and whatnot
We were able to trade problems like Blount and Ricky Davis for passing all-stars (Wally) and future first round picks.
The Fleet Center was renamed the Garden
The Red Sox and Patriots won 4 championships and the Sox and Pats went to two other championship series/games since June 1986.
Fenway hosted the all-star game
I DECLARE THE CURSE OF BIAS BROKEN THE NIGHT PAUL PIERCE SURVIVED 11 STAB WOUNDS AND DID NOT MISS A GAME THE NEXT SEASON
we are now just in a funk
|
|
|
Post by FLCeltsFan on Feb 1, 2007 21:35:02 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Roadrunner on Feb 1, 2007 23:28:37 GMT -5
Curse of bad management. ML Carr, Rick Pitino. Curse of poor drafting. Acie Earl, Eric "baby fence" Montross, Jerome Moiso, Kendrick Brown, Joe Forte. Curse of bad free agents. Dominique Wilkens, Pervous Ellison.
Our luck changes this draft. ;D
|
|
|
Post by DERRENMATTS on Feb 1, 2007 23:45:15 GMT -5
Wow, I can't believe it, Eja. You being the positive voice in this thread just made me smile ;D
We've had our share of bad outcomes for a long, long time (like you pointed out Q). But now we are onto good things. Ainge is laying the foundation for a bright future and we are not far from turning our fortunes around. We are 1 big man away from being a big time team in 3 years.
-Our PF spot is taken care of (Jefferson). -Our wings are strong (Pierce, Green, Wally, Tony). -We have an excellent corp of PG's (Telfair, Rajon, Delonte, Ray). -We have good big men off the bench (Perk, Gomes, Powe)
Even if we don't make a trade, as long as some of our kids develop and they all learn how to play as a team, we are going to be a solid playoff team. We are just one big time big man away from being a contender from that point.
|
|
|
Post by BCHISTORIAN on Feb 2, 2007 1:19:09 GMT -5
eja, i appreciate what you say, it shows you see the light again
|
|
|
Post by freshnthehouse on Feb 2, 2007 3:56:43 GMT -5
Curse of bad management. ML Carr, Rick Pitino. Curse of poor drafting. Acie Earl, Eric "baby fence" Montross, Jerome Moiso, Kendrick Brown, Joe Forte. Curse of bad free agents. Dominique Wilkens, Pervous Ellison. Our luck changes this draft. ;D Egg-sactly. 90% of that list isnt bad luck, its bad management. You make your own luck.
|
|
|
Post by Roadrunner on Feb 2, 2007 22:54:03 GMT -5
I may be loner, but I think Danny has put together an exciting team. Forget the 14 losses. Really. Take the best player from any team. What do you have? You can thank Stern, and expansion.
|
|
|
Post by The Eye of the Q is upon you! on Feb 2, 2007 23:50:28 GMT -5
Ok fine, but i'd point out some other stuff that seemed either good or at least didn't bother me. Thank You We made the playoffs on many occasions and the Eastern Conference Finals at least once. We made the playoffs 4 straight years and won three playoff series all under Coach O'Brien and Antione Walker. The third year was a complete fraud at 36-46 and four non competitive playoff games against Indiana. We got a three time all-star with the 6th pick (Toine) Antione Walker was one of the most interesting and talked about players in Celtics history and competed hard every night but his talent and skill level was suspect. He was a good soldier. We got a multiple all-star with the 10th pick Paul Pierce was selected 9th and he slid because scouts were worried about his attitude and shrinking in big games. He has had some problems with that here in Boston. We got a guy who is averaging 16.5 and 10 at age 21 with the last pick in the lottery. Not a bad selection but he has had his share of difficulties due to being young and injured. We got a guy who was predicted to go #3 at #18. Honestly, Green may develop into a star someday. But there was a reason he slid to 18. Teams needed immediate help and Green could not give it to them. The Celtics problem was that things were falling apart with the 2nd Antione Walker departure, Blount busting, RD, and Marcus Banks. Danny put together a package for Wally's wounded knee - McHale whipped his !!!GREENIAC!!! on that deal. We drafted like 4 second rounders and got an undrafted guy who will have careers in the league and one made the all rookie 2nd team I think Gomes is quite a find at pick 56 or 58. Justin Reed is a scrub in Minnesota. Powe has produced in very limited minutes. Allan Ray has had a couple of good moments. Is that a good thing or is that a bad thing? We are guaranteed a top 5 pick in a talent heavy draft No we are not. If Paul Pierce comes back in two weeks, we should go back to a .400 team which gets us about 14 more wins and a 26-56 record. Top 6 maybe. We have about 10 trillion wings so we don't need Roy or Foye or Gay, and Foye and Gay suck this year but Theo's huge contract and Bassy come off the books after next year. 9 and half trillion wings got hurt so we still ended up short. Green got little time tonight. Other teams don't trade with us cause we have a gm that insists on not trading away our talent for other team's problems. Actually, the other GM's have little interest in our talent. Thank god Ga$ton is not walking thru that door. We have players who go to kid's plays and whatnot That is nice. Community service is a good thing and that will help the Celtics in the long run. We were able to trade problems like Blount and Ricky Davis for passing all-stars (Wally) and future first round picks. We have a happy clubhouse but we don't have much talent. The Fleet Center was renamed the Garden Now we keep adding to the franchise record of most consecutive home games. The Red Sox and Patriots won 4 championships and the Sox and Pats went to two other championship series/games since June 1986. Also the Bruins skated in two Stanley Cup finals in 1990 and 1992. Fenway hosted the all-star game So What? I DECLARE THE CURSE OF BIAS BROKEN THE NIGHT PAUL PIERCE SURVIVED 11 STAB WOUNDS AND DID NOT MISS A GAME THE NEXT SEASON That was an amazing comeback by Pierce and but the Celtics will always be remembered for winning 16 championships in 30 years and zero after Len Bias died just days after their 16th championship. As years go by - 1986 becomes the new year Boston Celtics fans remember as the Red Sox fans remembered 1918 and 2004. we are now just in a funk No, we truly lack talent and maturity to win games. Blame Doc and Danny for this so called funk. I approve of this post in Loy's blog.
|
|
|
Post by The Eye of the Q is upon you! on Feb 2, 2007 23:57:52 GMT -5
Wow, I can't believe it, Eja. You being the positive voice in this thread just made me smile ;D We've had our share of bad outcomes for a long, long time (like you pointed out Q). But now we are onto good things. Ainge is laying the foundation for a bright future and we are not far from turning our fortunes around. We are 1 big man away from being a big time team in 3 years. -Our PF spot is taken care of (Jefferson). -Our wings are strong (Pierce, Green, Wally, Tony). -We have an excellent corp of PG's (Telfair, Rajon, Delonte, Ray). -We have good big men off the bench (Perk, Gomes, Powe) Even if we don't make a trade, as long as some of our kids develop and they all learn how to play as a team, we are going to be a solid playoff team. We are just one big time big man away from being a contender from that point. Jefferson needs to get stronger. He will be a good one provided he grows into a man. Pierce is a HOF talent. Green is promising but needs to grow up. Wally is a bust right now. Tony, I hope, comes back and becomes the starting SG for the next 12 years. We still need a starting C (Perkins, Gomes, and Powe are backup calibur). If we don't make a trade we will not sign all our young players and will still have to build through future drafts. Trading and FA signings have not been kind to DA.
|
|
|
Post by freshnthehouse on Feb 3, 2007 6:56:18 GMT -5
Antione Walker was one of the most interesting and talked about players in Celtics history and competed hard every night but his talent and skill level was suspect. He was a good soldier. Antoine played hard for OBrien. He didnt play hard for Pitino. Remember what kind of shape he was in during that strike shortened season? He was a mess. I whole-heartedly disagree with this. Would you rather have blount, banks and reed back? What would that do for us? Give us 5 more wins, tops? And then we'd get the privilidge of watching Blount sulk all game and get more turnovers than rebounds and watch RD dominate the ball and be a cancer in the locker room? I'll pass. Heck, the first rounder we got from minny alone made that a good trade for us. I'd agree that GMs dont think our talent is as good as we do, but i wouldnt say that they dont have interest. All the reports sounded like we couldve had Iverson if we wouldve been willing to package AlJeff with some of the other kids.
|
|
|
Post by The Eye of the Q is upon you! on Feb 3, 2007 12:30:53 GMT -5
Antione Walker was one of the most interesting and talked about players in Celtics history and competed hard every night but his talent and skill level was suspect. He was a good soldier. Antoine played hard for OBrien. He didnt play hard for Pitino. Remember what kind of shape he was in during that strike shortened season? He was a mess. I whole-heartedly disagree with this. Would you rather have blount, banks and reed back? What would that do for us? Give us 5 more wins, tops? And then we'd get the privilidge of watching Blount sulk all game and get more turnovers than rebounds and watch RD dominate the ball and be a cancer in the locker room? I'll pass. Heck, the first rounder we got from minny alone made that a good trade for us. I'd agree that GMs dont think our talent is as good as we do, but i wouldnt say that they dont have interest. All the reports sounded like we couldve had Iverson if we wouldve been willing to package AlJeff with some of the other kids. The team back in 2000 was led by Antione and he won his power struggle with Pitino. Ainge saw Antione for who he was and decided to ship his !!!GREENIAC!!! out of town for as much as he could get for him (LaFrentz, Jiri Welsch, Chris Mills Expiring, and a truck load of draft choices). Bringing him back a 2nd time was a one shot deal at glory which ended in a devastating game seven home massacre to a mediocre Indiana team playing out of its mind that night. Doc was exposed that series. Ainge traded for perennial cancer and coach killer RD and resigned Blonut who got the 2004 Fraudelant Celtics into the playoffs with the legendary John Carroll as head coach. That resigning was truly regrettable and deprived Perkins and Mihm much needed playing time. Don't let Blonut's production in Minnesota fool you, that is how great Garnett is. Sczczerbiak has been horrible with us, hardly the player we thought we were getting but maybe with Pierce, Rondo, and West coming back he can get it going again. I call that Minnesota trade the chemotherapy trade and the Celtics are still sick from it. Basically, the team is still dependent on Pierce for winning chances. And attrition has really taken it's toll with all the injuries, and poor luck. The Celtics right now won't win more than about six games the rest of the way unless Rondo starts every night and Paul Pierce returns to the lineup. Even if that happens, we will get a fifth or sixth pick and a good big man. Trading for Pau Gasol moves us back to a tenth pick and we become spoilers in March and April and return to the 'offs in '08. We get a 3-5 year window to get to the 2nd round of the playoffs but we would still lose out to Washington, Orlando, Chicago, Detriot, or Cleveland. And then in 2011, we are back to square 1. There are no easy answers for the Celtics and everything seems to lead to further setbacks for this team. I honestly don't see any opportunities for improvement unless it comes from within.
|
|
|
Post by eja117 on Feb 3, 2007 13:27:08 GMT -5
Yep. Things look pretty bad. that's kinda what the draft is for. And also sorta free agency if we get millions off the books, which is happening.
|
|
|
Post by Roadrunner on Feb 3, 2007 16:25:19 GMT -5
I am waiting for the naysayers to say the situation looks pretty bad, when oden or durant ius wearing green & white next season.
|
|