cfoo
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Post by cfoo on Jan 26, 2007 20:26:18 GMT -5
This is about as bad as it gets. I can't watch this stuff much longer. Not to pick at Ainge or anything, but his plan of rebuilding and staying competitive at the same time was a blatant lie. It's nice that he set the standard high and thought we could, but these guys are just way too young and inexperienced. This just shows how good a player Pierce is imo, and we need more players like him. Good players equal wins, and the more of them you have, the more wins you get. Right now we dont have many good players if at all. Could some of these guys become that? sure, but right now we don't have anyone. I honestly feel for Doc in a way. People blame Pierce. People blame Doc, but it's really not their fault. The reason we are losing is because we have a bunch of inexperienced young players who aren't very good yet, and that ultimately is Ainge's fault. Is it a bad thing? Probably not. Will we win eventually? Maybe his plan will work. But the reason we are bad is really on Ainge.
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cfoo
Welcome To Celtics Green!
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Post by cfoo on Jan 26, 2007 20:32:55 GMT -5
Ultimately I would like to know what Ainge's plan is to fix this. Do we just wait for these guys to become good? Do we get a different coach? do we trade Pierce? These are things that have not been answered. I would feel differently if Ainge was saying be patient, but that's not what he has said all along. He's basically said we would be good by now and we aren't.
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cfoo
Welcome To Celtics Green!
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Post by cfoo on Jan 26, 2007 20:37:59 GMT -5
Not to be an !!!GREENIAC!!!, but if I were to talk to Ainge I would ask him this very thing. And his response would probably be but Allen got hurt, Pierce got hurt, blah, blah. That is really no excuse. He made statements to fans and said we would be good by now, and we aren't and I would like to know what his plan is to fix this? We are suddenly tanking and one of the worst teams if not the worst team in teh league here. Any real fan would be upset by this imo.
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Post by Roadrunner on Jan 26, 2007 23:14:15 GMT -5
Not to blame Pierce, but its always ironic when an NBA player signs an extension, then "all of the sudden" gets hurt. One reason, I hate this game: guaranteed contracts.
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Post by mev17 on Jan 27, 2007 2:10:37 GMT -5
I think the jury is still out on Ainge. He has drafted well given the spots he has draftd at, but one can question some of his recent trades; giving up a 1st round pick to rent Walker for a few months was in retrospect a bad deal, and trading the #7 overall pick to Telfair seems to have been a mistake. Plus he never has done anything noteworthy with the MLE.
But it is hard to deny that injuries have derailed much of the planning - especially this year but even last year with Allen and Jefferson. Hard for young guys to develop individually or as a team when people keep moving in and out of the lineup.
I have been supportive of Ainge, and still am due to his generally good drafting, which will eventually pay dividends IMO. I think part of our decades long drought is no one has committed to building through the draft until our current ownership came in and hired Ainge. As hard as this year is, the best way to rebuild long-term is to acquire good talent through the draft, and hopefully supplement with trades and/or free agent signings. I remain cautiously optimistic, although the thought of once again being at the bottom of the league and losing out in the lottery kills me. Let's hope the ping-pong balls are kinder this time around.
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cfoo
Welcome To Celtics Green!
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Post by cfoo on Jan 27, 2007 2:30:11 GMT -5
I'm also a supporter of Ainge, I just would like to know what his plan really is? Does he really think this team can win as is, if it just matures? What is the philosophy of this team? I watch these games and everything is so disjointed.... Are we a strong passing team? Are we a running team? are we a power team? What is it Ainge is going for here, besides just aquiring young talent? we can't seem to score more than 70-80 points a night with these young guys and we supposed to be built for offense. I watch some of these lineups that are put out there and who is the go to guy? besides Al we don't have one.
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cfoo
Welcome To Celtics Green!
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Post by cfoo on Jan 27, 2007 2:32:15 GMT -5
Things were looking good with Allen and Green up and coming and Al, and things were looking clearer but now I'm watching Green and he doesn't seem to have a clue what he's supposed to be doing out there. He's lost out there. We can blame Doc for this and not incorporating guys, but he's the coach Ainge chose adn Ainge doesn't seem like he is any hurry to make a change. I don't get it. Are we supposed to just expect that things are all of a sudden going to get better? Watching these games isn't even like watching basketball, there is no structure or direction. It's like watching someone having their teeth pulled. Maybe it's one of those situations where things have to get worse before they get better, but we keep getting worse and worse. HEnce why I hope this is as bad as it gets. It can't get any worse.
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cfoo
Welcome To Celtics Green!
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Post by cfoo on Jan 27, 2007 2:48:48 GMT -5
Watching this team last night reminded me of the pre pitino year where we had Antoine, now we have Al, and we had Todd Day scoring by default just because we sucked, and that's pretty much what Allen Ray was doing. We had a pg who wasn't really a pg in David Wesley, Delonte West has taken his roll. Tony Allen played his part as Greg Minor. AThletic guy who got hurt. I think the same happened to Minor. We just look disjointed and like a really bad team. Yeah we have some other decent young talent in Green, we still have Pierce, we have Telfair, Rondo, Gomes but none of these guys are going to be that great imo.... Back then we had Dino Radja, Rick Fox. This team is eerily similar and not as talented as people think. We are basically at the bottom of the barrel and have a lot of building and players to acquire imo.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Jan 27, 2007 4:18:53 GMT -5
THe future of this team is completely linked to who we score in the draft(which is why I hope PP doesnt play another game this year). If we somehow get the number #1, we instantly become a very powerful team down low(Imagine Oden blocking shots like a madman and the duo of Oden and AlJeff dominating the boards. Delicious,) If we get Durant at the two, we can play him at the four and out run a lot of teams, not mention wed be able to stretch the court like a mofo with all those 3 point shooters out there at once. But after that, it gets a little dicier(But still dang intruging). If Hawes becomes what some think he can become, he'd be the optimal big to run a high post offense. And i think JWright can become a big time player. If we were to score him, Id be down with packagin Green and some goodies for a bigtime 4 of 5.
But anyhoo, thanks to this belly flop of a season, I am really looking forward to this year. I'll take a year like this any day over a 35-40 win season where we fight for the honor of getting our butts kicked in the first round.
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cfoo
Welcome To Celtics Green!
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Post by cfoo on Jan 27, 2007 5:27:14 GMT -5
I'm excited about the draft as well Fresh. I would love to land Oden or Durant, but I also would like to know when this team is really going to improve. Outside of Al, I really don't see a whole lot of improvement. Telfair has taken a few steps forward and then several steps back. Green is the same thing. Rondo just drives down the lane and tosses up shots, makes poor decisions. West is playing pretty well and is what he is. Gomes is what he is. Perk can't seem to get off the ground and out of his own way. We need another big man in here badly. That is one thing I know.... If losing in order to get a high pick is keeping an eye on the future, then Doc is doing one hell of a job. This is where bad habits are picked up though, and I would hope that once we do get the talent in here, that they have a plan to ultilize it, because right now it's a bunch of freelancing, guys getting their feet wet, and just crap we are seeing. It's not basketball the way it was meant to be played.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Jan 27, 2007 17:56:34 GMT -5
I'm excited about the draft as well Fresh. I would love to land Oden or Durant, but I also would like to know when this team is really going to improve. Outside of Al, I really don't see a whole lot of improvement. Telfair has taken a few steps forward and then several steps back. Green is the same thing. Rondo just drives down the lane and tosses up shots, makes poor decisions. West is playing pretty well and is what he is. Gomes is what he is. Perk can't seem to get off the ground and out of his own way. We need another big man in here badly. That is one thing I know.... If losing in order to get a high pick is keeping an eye on the future, then Doc is doing one hell of a job. This is where bad habits are picked up though, and I would hope that once we do get the talent in here, that they have a plan to ultilize it, because right now it's a bunch of freelancing, guys getting their feet wet, and just crap we are seeing. It's not basketball the way it was meant to be played. Besides AL, I think that Green has mad several strides this year. He is still very long in the tooth, but he looks like a ten year vet compared to last year. I also think that Allen was really improving before he got hurt. But yeah, we def. need some help. Oden waould make us an instant play-off team, but with any other pick, we will probably end up in the lottory yet again (which may not be a bad thing).
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Post by eja117 on Jan 27, 2007 18:18:49 GMT -5
I don't think DA can just come out with his plan. I don't think he can be like "well I figure between Doc being the worst coach in the league and PP and others being hurt for a while I'll just take my shot at Oden and that's pretty much my plan." He has to say cliche stuff like "we're trying to win every game and develop the guys"
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jan 27, 2007 19:33:47 GMT -5
Sorry, I didn't read what everyone else posted yet.
CF, you can't be blaming Ainge for our losses. His plan is still in full effect (draft, develop, deal). He's doing what he set out to do from the very first day, which was to accumulate better talent--which he certainly has. The next step is to develop the talent, and its debatable whether the coaching staff is doing their job in this department. Granted, getting so many young (but talented) players makes it tough to develop on a tight timeline, but I think we could have had a better job of developing with a better coaching staff. Getting Clifford Ray was really good, but I don't know what to think of our other coaches.
How can anyone expect a team to win with so many injuries to key players? Take Tim Duncan and Tony Parker out of the mix and watch how they sink. Or take Dirk Nowitzki and Josh Howard and see if the Mavs win 20 in a row. Or Steve Nash and Amare Stoudemire, etc.
What you have to see is how our young team competes out there without Pierce and Wally. I mean, they are not getting blownout. Even against the Spurs, we made a big comeback and fought our way towards a comeback. They are playing competitive, even though the average age of the starting 5 is 22.5 years old.
What this tells me is that our future is in good hands. If Perk, Jefferson, Gomes, Green, Delonte, Rajon, Telfair, Ray and Powe can collectively play this well against better competition, I'm excited about our future because these guys will get better. Add in Pierce and Wally, and a high draft pick or 2 (whcih could turn out to be Oden, Durant, Noah, Wright, Hawes, Gray, Yi, etc.) and we really have a team that can be a formidable matchup.
Sorry, CF, I'm not calling you out or yelling at you, I'm just not comfortable with the blame going on Ainge's shoulders, when he's been the one getting us all this talent.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jan 27, 2007 19:42:27 GMT -5
Not to pick at Ainge or anything, but his plan of rebuilding and staying competitive at the same time was a blatant lie.
Oh, sorry about that. I didn't read carefully what was written. Yes, it was sort of a white lie (not blatant0 because I think his intention was to do what he said he would do. His aim was to take Walker out of the mix, but keep what we had in place and inject better talent on a year by year basis. He didn't expect Obie to bolt midway through the season, and that threw a wrench in his early plans.
But things were still heading in the right direction--that is until injuries started to accumulate. Even last year, when Jefferson and Perkins went down with injuries, it was a blow to us. And of course this year, we had numerous blows. Pierce, Wally, Theo, Delonte, Jefferson, Perkins, Scalbrine, Olowokandi, Tony, and even Ryan Gomes missed time.
This certainly wasn't in his plans either.
But I think all these injuries have been good for us. Sure we are losing a ton of games right now, but finally the young players are getting the developmental time they desperately need.
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cfoo
Welcome To Celtics Green!
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Post by cfoo on Jan 27, 2007 20:49:22 GMT -5
What you have to see is how our young team competes out there without Pierce and Wally. I mean, they are not getting blownout. Even against the Spurs, we made a big comeback and fought our way towards a comeback. They are playing competitive, even though the average age of the starting 5 is 22.5 years old. What this tells me is that our future is in good hands. If Perk, Jefferson, Gomes, Green, Delonte, Rajon, Telfair, Ray and Powe can collectively play this well against better competition, I'm excited about our future because these guys will get better. Add in Pierce and Wally, and a high draft pick or 2 (whcih could turn out to be Oden, Durant, Noah, Wright, Hawes, Gray, Yi, etc.) and we really have a team that can be a formidable matchup. I hear what you are saying, but what I'm saying is these guys aren't playing well. Outside of Jefferson, this team is playing very poorly actually. Sure we are competing but we are the worst team in the league. We have lost 10 games in a row. We have the 2nd to worst record in the league. That really isn't "competing". And you say well Pierce and Wally got hurt. Thats no excuse. These are ainge's guys out there. These are the players he drafted and are supposed to be the guys that are supposed to lead us to a championship. We have lost 10 games in a row 3 years later with Ainge's guys. People say how talented this team is, but I would be foolish not to question that. If we are so talented why are we the worst team in the league 3 years later? Lebron is pretty young. Does he use that as an excuse? His team IS competitive and he is the best player on it. Are the Cavs really that much more talented? Sure lebron has hughes and Ilgauskis, but Pierce, has Wally, Jefferson and all this young talent you speak of. The Cavs won last night without Lebron. The Cavs were a very good team last year without Hughes. Look at Charlotte, Milwaulkee, and the HOrnets. These are also 3 young teams that have had more injuries than the Celtics have. They have managed better records with their young talent and injuries than the celtics have. What does that say about the young talent on this team if we aren't as good as those teams respectively? It says we are in a worse position talentwise, experience wise and coaching wise than any other team in the league respectively. I think people see Jefferson, they see Green, they see Rondo and Telfair, and they think we have all this talent, but if you really look at the other teams in this league we really don't have that much. How does this team really stack up to teams that have NAsh, Marion, Amare, Barbosa, Diaw, Bell, etc, etc. These are the teams we are ultimately going to have to beat. How do we matchup with those teams. I think people tend to overrate the talent on this team. We are basically 2 stud players short, a lot of experience and a better coach away.
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