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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jan 21, 2007 22:35:11 GMT -5
Doc is failing to see the big picture. For instance, why in the world is he starting Delonte at PG? Sure, Delonte has begun to play well since his return from back spasms (scored 25 pts against the Kings and had 11 assists against the Wizards), but he's not our future PG. In time, both Telfair and Rajon will over take him--simply because they are PG's. Delonte is more of a scoring guard who can pass a bit. Right now, with the team in no serious contention, and with Telfair being in Doc's doghouse, let Rajon start and get the bulk of the minutes at PG.
Doc is a "systems" coach, and does not give his PG's the freedom to roam and create on their own. That's why Telfair has not met our expectations (yet). If you look at when Rajon is playing at his best, its when he's being allowed to force the tempo and attack--not when he's playing in a set offense.
Doc also fails to see the big picture by not playing Leon Powe. Instead, he goes with Michael Olowokandi. Why? Even if Olowokandi plays well, 1) he's not in our future plans, and 2) we are still going to lose games. Powe needs to be developed, and we need to use this season as a developmental year.
And probably the biggest shortsighted vision Doc displays is his use of Gerald Green and Al Jefferson. Gerald, along with Jefferson, are our 2 most talented offensive players, and Doc should be focusing on developing their offensive skills. Gerald has been coming off of curls more and hitting jumpers, but not nearly as often as he should be getting. Doc should be running this play 10 - 15 times per game, if not more, so that next year it will be automatic for Gerald. And with Jefferson, Doc needs to be setting up plays for Jefferson to receive the ball closer to the basket, as well as finding more ways to get the ball to Jefferson in general. There's no consistency of getting the ball in to Big Al and he can't get into rhythm that way.
C'mon, Doc. Its nice that Delonte and Gomes are having big games, but their futures aren't as bright as Gerald's or Jefferson's or Telfair's or Rajon's. Run plays that will develop these guys and allow our PG's to freely run the team.
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Post by Roadrunner on Jan 21, 2007 23:36:52 GMT -5
Doc can't handle the rookies making mistakes. Reason why predecessor coaches, like OB, played the vets too. Now, if I am Danny, I force Doc's hand. However, this season injuries has already forced Doc's hand, somewhat.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Jan 22, 2007 3:36:57 GMT -5
I dont really blame Doc. A coach, much like his players, dont care about the future(at least not when there's still 40 games left in the season). They are all about winning games now. Thats why a lot of teams fire their coach during tankjob seasons and the GM either inserts a yes-man or himself into the head coach position.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jan 22, 2007 10:23:18 GMT -5
But Doc has to care about the future. That's what this team is all about. Our hope lies in how much our young players develop. And if he's failing to see the big picture, he's not the right coach for this team.
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Post by eddietours on Jan 22, 2007 13:03:14 GMT -5
maybe doc can be are lucky star and get us the 1# pick
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2007 13:37:20 GMT -5
Or, Maybe Doc wants to leave but, Ainge told him to stay one more season and develop the young kids at the same time give this organization in position to draft in the lottery. So, at the end of this season, Doc will resign and leave this team on good terms instead of getting terminated..
Just a thought!
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Post by eja117 on Jan 22, 2007 15:02:44 GMT -5
To be fair you can't just declare someone's future brighter than someone elses. Kandi's I understand, but it's not like Delonte and Gomes are old men. Let the young guys beat them out. Not be handed the job. That sets a pretty bad precedent. "Yeah, we're gonna give out playing time based on potential. We really don't care that Gomes and Delonte are fulfilling theirs, while others aren't and aren't playing as well. We're just gonna play em any way." You gotta let people earn minutes before taking away someone else's.
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Post by The Eye of the Q is upon you! on Jan 22, 2007 23:43:56 GMT -5
Or, Maybe Doc wants to leave but, Ainge told him to stay one more season and develop the young kids at the same time give this organization in position to draft in the lottery. So, at the end of this season, Doc will resign and leave this team on good terms instead of getting terminated.. Just a thought! Doc is probably a dead man walking.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Jan 23, 2007 4:21:32 GMT -5
To be fair you can't just declare someone's future brighter than someone elses. Kandi's I understand, but it's not like Delonte and Gomes are old men. Let the young guys beat them out. Not be handed the job. That sets a pretty bad precedent. "Yeah, we're gonna give out playing time based on potential. We really don't care that Gomes and Delonte are fulfilling theirs, while others aren't and aren't playing as well. We're just gonna play em any way." You gotta let people earn minutes before taking away someone else's. I agree with most of this. Right now, Id say most scouts would choose DWest as a better talent then Telfair, not only right now, but over the long haul as well. Im against giving guys minutes they dont deserve because thats how bad habits start and can sometimes last a players career. We saw this first hand with Antoine Walker. If GGreen starts sloughing on D, I want DOc to put him on the pine and let someone else play. If Gomes in playing better than Powe, he RG should get the minutes. Same goes for Veal. If Powe cant play D like Veal, Powe should be on the bench. Give players unearned minutes is not a road I want the Cs to go down.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jan 23, 2007 11:04:02 GMT -5
Right, I see your point. Its not right to give minutes to undeserving players at the expense of players who are playing well and earning minutes. But this does nt get him off the hook. He's still dismissing Powe's contributions, and everyone in Celtics nation can see that Powe does leave his mark when he's on the court.
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Post by The Eye of the Q is upon you! on Jan 23, 2007 13:20:39 GMT -5
Right, I see your point. Its not right to give minutes to undeserving players at the expense of players who are playing well and earning minutes. But this does nt get him off the hook. He's still dismissing Powe's contributions, and everyone in Celtics nation can see that Powe does leave his mark when he's on the court. I'm with you and FLCeltfan there. Powe reminds me of Paul Silas at times when he is given PT. I hate for us to be squandering the backup PF position on Scalabrine and Olowakandi when Powe is available.
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Post by ferbo on Jan 23, 2007 23:12:32 GMT -5
The big picture as I see it:
This year's team was put together to win. Maybe not the Championship, but into the playoffs. much different than the team put together by and for ML Carr when the Cs tanked a season hoping for Duncan.
Injuries have killed that. One we don't talk much about is Ratliff. he has had health problems recently, but not back. It was a reasonable hope that he would put in minutes and be a defensive presence and a positive influence. Then Pierce and Wally. West somewhat. Scal not worth mentioning. Perk's foot, which obvously isn't healed.
So the season is heading i nto the tank anyway.
As I see it, Pierce and Wally should sit until they are really well. No recurrence of the McHale foot. Perk same thing, especially after Scal gets back.
I had thought it was a mistake to play AJ anywhere but the 4. Someone pointed out that his surge occurred at the 5. I would still like for the team to get minutes out of Kandi and Scal at the 5, so that AJs time could at least be split. Hell, if AJ was going up against Duncan and having hsi moments, let him go up against those guys.
When Pierce eventually gets back, keep his minutes limited so that Gomes can get some minutes there to see what happens.
The hardest jugglingi for Doc is at the 2. West. Wally. Green. All 3 need minutes.
As long as AJ is playing the 5 and Pierce is out, Powe definitely should get time at the 4. Keep Gomes getting most of his his minutes at the 3.
At the PG, Ragon and ST should get most of the minutes. Don't lose ST by letting him develop splinters.
I know some of you are big on Ray, but when you shove some of those guys from the 2 to 3, and Gomes from 3 to 4, the minutes for Powe evaporate. I'm much rather see powe on the floor than Ray.
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cfoo
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Post by cfoo on Jan 24, 2007 5:29:01 GMT -5
Doc went with a lineup of Rondo, West, Ray, Gomes, and Jefferson for the majority of the 4th quarter. I had no problem with that. Yeah he could have played Powe, but someone is going to lose minutes here. Green was not playing well and Doc still inserted him later in the game. It's easier said than done, and someone is going to lose minutes. If it weren't Powe, it would have been Ray and people would be saying why isn't Doc playing Ray. Maybe they were trying to give him a look. I don't buy the whole Doc is trying to win now argument and isn't looking at the future. Look at the guys that are playing and are getting minutes. It's mainly the young guys. The problem is everyone is young, and only so many guys can get minutes. Doc is also trying to win and Kandi is playing pretty well, so I don't see why not play him. It's not like Powe isn't going to get time.... He's still very young and has plenty of time.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jan 24, 2007 10:59:39 GMT -5
I don't buy the whole Doc is trying to win now argument and isn't looking at the future.
Before Wally went back down because of his 2 bad ankles (for the second time), Doc was running him into the ground. And it was painfully obvious that he wasn't playing well, but he still got the bulk of the playing time.
Doc made a comment in the news today about why he stayed with Gomes, Delonte, Ray and Rajon (with Jefferson) against the Spurs (and I thought it worked)-- it was because these guys played college ball and where better prepared for the tight game situations.
If Pierce, Wally, Delonte, Theo and Scalabrine remained healthy all year, a lot of the young kids who are shining now may have never got the chance to show us what they can do. Doc would have heavily used the veterans. Maybe Jefferson wouldn't be having the breakout season he's having now. Gerald and Tony would be on the bench a lot while Pierce and Wally have all the fun.
I shouldn't put so much blame on Rivers, but I do think he's guilty of some things.
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Post by goceltics34 on Jan 24, 2007 15:34:58 GMT -5
But Doc has to care about the future. That's what this team is all about. Our hope lies in how much our young players develop. And if he's failing to see the big picture, he's not the right coach for this team. You're right doc dosen't care about the future, because he's knows after this season he's gone. I hope to god pierce's injury isn't used as a excuse for rivers to stay. Like i said earlier in the season, go get stan van gundy to coach this team. This guy knows how to develop young talent, and he can maximize the skills of everyone on the court. I could careless if the celtics won another game this season, but they need to be prepared to make a serious run for van gundy. Without the proper coaching we'll just be a mediorce team.
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