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Post by eja117 on Jan 17, 2007 14:38:56 GMT -5
I think I'd give him a B+ and this is why.
Doc was a bad hire but that was not immediately clear. His first year made sense. Eventually it all unraveled. I don't see the other awesome coaches that were available.
Marcus Banks. Bad pick. But salvaged something of it
Perk, should be a fine backup center, which is what you hope for when you pick a high schooler deep in the first round. Even more important he resigned him to an affordable long term deal.
2nd rounders A+ Gomes, Powe, Oriene, Reed Has anyone picked so many 2nd rounders with futures? Other teams wanted them
AL J. Took about 2.5 years to develop despite injury. Maybe he didn't hit a homerun but he hit a triple
TA Very good pick for late in the draft. There was no reason to believe at any point he'd get arrested or hurt. Very good on defense. Took a little while to develop
West. A decent backup at both positions and developed rather quickly. Very good late draft pick. Too bad he gets hurt so much, but there was no reason to think that would happen
GG. Excellent excellent mid round pick
Rondo for a future late first. Probably an A- move
Trading Toine for Raef. Stupid when you consider Toine only had two years left on his deal and Raef had a million. But we also got I thnk TA out of that.
Signing Scala for 5 years and 15 mill. He was destined to be the best, if not the most expensive 12 man in the league. Now he's the cheapest 9th. That's Doc's fault. This gets a C+. At least it's not like Jerome James for $50 mill kind of a thing
Trading Blonut, Banks, RD, and Reed for Wally, Kandi, and a future 1. I still think this was an excellent excellent trade. I couldn't have dealt with another two years of Blonut. I just couldn't. And I like Wally way more than RD, I don't care that he's hurt. At least wait to see what happens with the 1rst
Trading Raef and Brandon Roye or Foye or whatever for Bassy and Theo, who expires after next year. I don't care what anyone says. It was a smart move. I'm not willing to wait 5 years for Foye to become the next Billups. GG is better than Roy, and ultimately TA might be too (I think at least eventually), Thoe for Raef is excellent. Bassy and Rondo duking it out at pg is way better than waiting forever for a chance that Foye gets good. I like Rondo more. I might even like Bassy more.
Kandi for the minimum is working out. He was only getting time when people were hurt. He wasn't hindering anyone's development.
The big thing was whether resigning PP was a good idea. I think in some ways it was, in some it wasn't. Doc is killing that whole thing more than anything else.
You also gotta give him credit for the trades he didn't make like Iverson for AL or GG or both.
But every single individual thing he has done has made sense or worked and in the mean time he has brought us into a fiscally responsible place.
I think the big judgement on DA is whether he fires Doc and who he hires and how that guy does. Also what does he do on draft nite assuming we don't get Oden. If he screws that up, in particular if he does something weird like Durant, Rondo and GG for KG and a 2nd or something then that will mean everything.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Jan 17, 2007 15:02:19 GMT -5
I choose a B+ as well. So far the only moves I didnt like was resigning Mark Blount (never liked the guy), and the second Walker trade(completely pointless).
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jan 17, 2007 17:57:09 GMT -5
I would very easily give him an A, but I am bias, so I toned it down to a B+.
Ainge has done a terrific job with the drafts. Getting future franchise players in Jefferson and Green without having high lottery picks were a stroke of luck, but credit Ainge for taking them while so many other teams passed them up.
Just as impressive is getting so many good role players with late firsts and second round picks (Perkins, Delonte, Tony, Gomes), and especially for pulling out Allan Ray from the undrafted list, and making the trade with Denver to swipe Leon Powe. Those were pretty brilliant.
Ainge's trades haven't gone quite as fruitfully, but to be honest, he hasn't had much to work with. He inherited a team void of talent (aside from Pierce and Walker)--remmeber that we had guys like Rueben Wolkowyski, Grant Long, Bimbo Coles, Mikki Moore, Walter McCarty and the likes making up the bulk of the roster. But not, from 1 - 15, after Ainge's arrival, the roster is filled with talented players who are projected to make their contributions in the future as they develop.
Signing Mark Blount to that contract, I believe, was to please Doc. Ainge probably did this to make Doc feel like he's a big part of the team's decision making. Doc was pretty high on Blount, making a special trip to Blount's house to convince him to re-sign. I think Blount credited his re-signing due to Doc's admiration for him.
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Post by eja117 on Jan 17, 2007 18:23:40 GMT -5
I forgot about Ray and the second Walker trade. But did that trade hurt us? Also I forgot how bad that team was. Blonut had a typical contract year, and it's not easy to come by big men that put up the kinds of numbers he did for that half year. I wasn't against it at the time. At the time it looked like a street free agent had made good.
The only other knock you could put on DA was that some other players were drafted later that he could have had like Boris Diaw (I don't know about you but I don't want a frenchmen on the team anyway. There I said it), Ridnour, Josh Howard, etc, but tons of team passed on them and he got fine picks.
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Post by The Eye of the Q is upon you! on Jan 18, 2007 13:02:58 GMT -5
I gave him a big fat D. He made a decision to take a 2nd round playoff team and traded away a key component - Antione Walker for Raef LaFrentz and 4 other parts. While we only have two of those other parts left on the roster and both are injured - Delonte West and Tony Allen. His first draft is essentially a complete bust - Banks and Kendrick Perkins (Perkins is our starting center but he is backup quality journeyman center). His 2nd round picks have been amazing and is keeping him out of F. His subsequent trades have been disasterous - net sum is Tony Battie, Eric Williams, Banks, Blount, and Justin Reed for Walter Sczerbiak and a 2008 1st rounder. Battie and Blount are productive role players while Sczerbiak is injured. And now Raef LaFrentz and Dickau plus Brandon Roy draft pick was traded for Theo Ratliffe and Sebatian Telfair. Dickau found some minutes with Portland and produced. Brandon Roy is going to be a key player for Portland. Raef is rotting away but so Theo Ratliffe. Couldn't Raef LaFrentz, Dickau, and Brandon Roy all be doing for something for us now? That one blew up Danny Boya's face.
And to underscore my last point about Danny, who hired Doc Rivers in the 1st place?
If I were owner of the Celtics I would look at replacing both Danny and Doc Rivers. Celtics nation we are totally screwed unless Greg Oden walks through that door.
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Post by The Eye of the Q is upon you! on Jan 18, 2007 13:18:23 GMT -5
I would very easily give him an A, but I am bias, so I toned it down to a B+. B+ for turning a 2nd round EC playoff team into a bottom feeder. Good GOD!!!!!! Even without the injuries we would at best be at New Jersey's/ New York Knicks level. Toronto should run away with this division in the 2nd half. Friend, we don't have Toronto's talent. Ainge has done a terrific job with the drafts. Getting future franchise players in Jefferson and Green without having high lottery picks were a stroke of luck, but credit Ainge for taking them while so many other teams passed them up. . Drafting is 50% luck..... just ask the Seattle Sonics. Just as impressive is getting so many good role players with late firsts and second round picks (Perkins, Delonte, Tony, Gomes), and especially for pulling out Allan Ray from the undrafted list, and making the trade with Denver to swipe Leon Powe. Those were pretty brilliant. .....Golf Clap........ Ainge's trades haven't gone quite as fruitfully, but to be honest, he hasn't had much to work with. He inherited a team void of talent (aside from Pierce and Walker)--remmeber that we had guys like Rueben Wolkowyski, Grant Long, Bimbo Coles, Mikki Moore, Walter McCarty and the likes making up the bulk of the roster. But not, from 1 - 15, after Ainge's arrival, the roster is filled with talented players who are projected to make their contributions in the future as they develop. Oh Boy they haven't. Every single trade has backfired and I submit to you that has set us in motion in the race to the bottom to get in position for the rights to draft Oden. Everyone acquired is playing for another team or injured. Olowakandi should be playing 30 minutes a night with all the injuries the Celtics have had. Signing Mark Blount to that contract, I believe, was to please Doc. Ainge probably did this to make Doc feel like he's a big part of the team's decision making. Doc was pretty high on Blount, making a special trip to Blount's house to convince him to re-sign. I think Blount credited his re-signing due to Doc's admiration for him. Actually, that was to keep him out of Philadelphia because Jim O'Brien was coaching there. He got his money and went into the tank and became a cancer and we undergoing chemotherapy. I'm sorry, the rest of the league has gotten better and the Celtics have gotten worse. Our luck is atrocious, our home record is a disgrace and something has to change this losing stigma we are locked into.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Jan 18, 2007 14:32:09 GMT -5
He made a decision to take a 2nd round playoff team and traded away a key component - Antione Walker for Raef LaFrentz and 4 other parts. A second round team that had as much of a shot of winning the title as our ceurrent team. I'd much rather hit rock bottom and get a high pick than wallow in mediocrity year in and year out. And one thing that we havent mentioned when it comes to Ainge's moves is that he talked Vin Baker into signing away almost two thirds of the moeny we owed him. For that alone he deserves to have a statue built for him in Boston. We also have to include Rondo in the discussion of pieces we received in the Walker deal. We received Jiri in that trade, who turned into Cleveland's 07 #1 pick, which turned into Rondo.
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Post by eja117 on Jan 18, 2007 15:19:21 GMT -5
Tony Battie, Banks, Eric Williams, and Blount aren't doing almost anything in this league except getting paid. Reed is a fine backup. The fact that we got anything for Banks (basically a 1rst rounder is awesome).
Who would you rather have? Battie or Perk? I'll take Perk, who is younger and makes less money. Reed or Gomes or Powe? Banks or Rondo or a 1rst? Dickau or Bassy? Blount or Kandi at a minimum salary? Eric Williams or any of our young wings?
A lineup with young cheap guys that have never accomplished anything is way better than a lineup of overpriced, expensive vets, who never accomplished anything.
I hate doing this but you have forced me into it.
Would you rather have this? Derek Anderson, Adonal Foyle, Juwan Howard, Keith Van Horn, Calvin Booth, Brevin Knight, John Starks, Bo Outlaw, Mike Duleavy, Trajon Langdon, Corliss Williamson in their 6th years?
Or would you rather have this group of high school seniors? K Durant, Brandon Rush, Jonathan Bender, DeShawn Stevens, Tyson Chandler, Al Harrington, Robert Swift, OJ Mayo, Rashard Lewis, Ousmine Cisse, Korleon Young, James Lang, Andray Blatche, Louis Williams
I'd rather have the high schoolers. Because the first group established that they were good but not great players and were going to get paid a lot to not even be bronze medal guys. The second group is cheap and one or two guys might end up being gold medal. And you need gold medalers to win championships.
PP, Walker, Battie, and Eric Williams had zero bronze level guys. It had one and a half all-stars in their prime.
GG, Rondo, and our next draft pick could be maybe silver or bronze. Al J could be consistent all-star or bronze. And in addition we have TA who might have an all-star year. And we have guys like Perk and West and Gomes and Powe and Ray who might be 6th men of the year some day.
Just cause we have a horrid coach doesn't mean we have a horrid GM.
Notice I wrote that whole thing without once using the pword.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jan 18, 2007 16:12:31 GMT -5
Q, I do see your line of thinking, but in actuality, when this team is healthy, I'll take it any day over a team consisting of Antoine Walker, Tony Battie, Eric Williams, Banks, Blount, and Justin Reed and whoever else was on the roster before Ainge took over.
You should be able to see that with a healthy and developed roster, this team is head over heels better than its predecessor. Pierce, Wally, Jefferson, Gerald, Perkins, Gomes, Delonte, Tony, Telfair, Rajon, Powe, Scalabrine and Ray--that's a better group of players than what was here before.
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Post by The Eye of the Q is upon you! on Jan 18, 2007 22:36:55 GMT -5
Q, I do see your line of thinking, but in actuality, when this team is healthy, I'll take it any day over a team consisting of Antoine Walker, Tony Battie, Eric Williams, Banks, Blount, and Justin Reed and whoever else was on the roster before Ainge took over. You should be able to see that with a healthy and developed roster, this team is head over heels better than its predecessor. Pierce, Wally, Jefferson, Gerald, Perkins, Gomes, Delonte, Tony, Telfair, Rajon, Powe, Scalabrine and Ray--that's a better group of players than what was here before. THey are injured and underdeveloped. So the 64 million dollar question is, what do we do when it is time to re-up these guys? Al Jefferson - at least 8 million dollars for 4 years for commeasurate production at PF Perkins - reupped at a journeymans wage of 4 million per year at Center. Battie is making about the same in Orlando. Gomes - trade and keep Powe or pay him 6 million and trade Powe? Green - pay him and trade Pierce or trade him and keep Pierce. Allen - depends on his recovery West/Bassy/Rondo - one of them goes I guess Bassy does. Rondo is the best bet to emerge but there are no sure things in the NBA today. Wally and Pierce are your veteran leaders. Scalabrine - utility guy Did I leave out anybody? Oh yes Allen Ray He probably is our 2nd half MVP.
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Post by The Eye of the Q is upon you! on Jan 18, 2007 22:47:25 GMT -5
Who would you rather have? Battie or Perk? I'll take Perk, who is younger and makes less money. Reed or Gomes or Powe? Banks or Rondo or a 1rst? Dickau or Bassy? Blount or Kandi at a minimum salary? Eric Williams or any of our young wings? I have always liked Tony Battie. Between Reed, Gomes, or Powe - Three good players who give you something different. I'm partial to rebounders and defenders and I like all three players - I think Gomes gets the nod. Rondo without the 1st. Dickau or Bassy is a toss at this point - whomever is cheaper in the long run. Give me Damon Stoudemire. Blount is a better player when he puts his mind to it than Kandi. I hate him because he stiffed the Celtics. Eric Williams was a nice player but you have to go with the youghans. A lineup with young cheap guys that have never accomplished anything is way better than a lineup of overpriced, expensive vets, who never accomplished anything. I hate doing this but you have forced me into it. Would you rather have this? Derek Anderson, Adonal Foyle, Juwan Howard, Keith Van Horn, Calvin Booth, Brevin Knight, John Starks, Bo Outlaw, Mike Duleavy, Trajon Langdon, Corliss Williamson in their 6th years? Or would you rather have this group of high school seniors? K Durant, Brandon Rush, Jonathan Bender, DeShawn Stevens, Tyson Chandler, Al Harrington, Robert Swift, OJ Mayo, Rashard Lewis, Ousmine Cisse, Korleon Young, James Lang, Andray Blatche, Louis Williams both are 30 something win teams in todays NBA, one group is more consistent than the other I'd rather have the high schoolers. Because the first group established that they were good but not great players and were going to get paid a lot to not even be bronze medal guys. The second group is cheap and one or two guys might end up being gold medal. And you need gold medalers to win championships. PP, Walker, Battie, and Eric Williams had zero bronze level guys. It had one and a half all-stars in their prime. GG, Rondo, and our next draft pick could be maybe silver or bronze. Al J could be consistent all-star or bronze. And in addition we have TA who might have an all-star year. And we have guys like Perk and West and Gomes and Powe and Ray who might be 6th men of the year some day. Just cause we have a horrid coach doesn't mean we have a horrid GM. Notice I wrote that whole thing without once using the pword. [/quote]
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Post by Roadrunner on Jan 18, 2007 22:54:23 GMT -5
Eja solid post (karma+).
Based on the 3 "Ds", this is how I assess Danny:
Draft - A: why? Selecting Jefferson, and Green w/ two non-lottery picks. Selecting Gomes, and Powe w/ two second round picks. Selecting Allen, and West higher than most teams thought.
Development - B: why? Mostly, because of Doc, because it could have been higher if he played the kids earlier. Jefferson is starting to become a force; and Gomes is solid utility big.
Deals - C+: why? The quality of the roster has changed, but we still have a trade or two to go, before we can contend.
Overall: B
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