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Post by DERRENMATTS on Dec 24, 2006 1:21:29 GMT -5
He's a steady contributor, capable of putting up really solid numbers (triple double against CHA, 22/14 against NY), but also have some very invisible numbers as well (2/2 against POR, 6/1 against DET).
So what's his value? Untouchable? Only trade him for a superstar/star player? Trade fodder?
He's certainly not being used as much as he should be, and if plays were called for him, he'd get more scoring opportunities. But on this team, with Jefferson being our man down low, Gomes will never get the chance to really shine like he could be if he were the main big man.
Plus, we have Powe, who shows just as much value as a rebounder and post scorer, but shows more promise as a defender and shot blocker.
So what are we to do with Gomes?
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Post by BCHISTORIAN on Dec 24, 2006 16:16:34 GMT -5
gomes will always be a role player and that makes him available in a good trade scenario
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Post by eja117 on Dec 24, 2006 18:46:04 GMT -5
A championship team needs between 1 and 4 Gomeses specifically because he won't shine. They can't all be superstars. They can't all get max contracts. Al has basically beaten out Gomes. But Perk hasn't and neither has Powe. We basically need either Perk or Powe (preferably the much bigger Perk) to become another Al and someone to become another Gomes. In the guard area there is one too many guys. I was thinking Delonte might be the guard Gomes, but TA can play really good D, plus Rondo isn't playing, so it's hard to say.
I mostly want to get rid of PP for a good, cheaper, leader type vet who won't stand in the way of youth. Like maybe trade away PP, Ray, Scala, and Telfair and bring in people like Battier and Earl Boykins or Watson. Uncrowd and define positions.
But basically I think of him as untouchable in the sense that we can't get a star for Gomes, and there's no point in trading a role player for a role player. Now as much as I am in love with Gomes I can't cry if they trade him, Telfair, TA, and a draft pick for a Gasol or something.
I just honestly think we need to win a championship from within. There are two things necessary for that.
Get rid of players taking us further from a championship (PP)
Get a coach who can win a championship (?)
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Dec 24, 2006 22:10:08 GMT -5
Gomes offers two things to this team that I find very valuable; knocking down those 18 footers and being a garbage player (grabbing offensive rebounds and putting them back up for the score). For these 2 reasons, I sometimes find it hard to get rid of him.
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Post by Roadrunner on Dec 26, 2006 23:07:19 GMT -5
Gomes is a great offensive player. Need to work on his defense, because he gives up about as many points, rebounds as he takes in.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Dec 27, 2006 4:14:10 GMT -5
I like Gomes, but I wouldnt hesitate to include him in a trade.
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Post by eja117 on Dec 27, 2006 11:57:11 GMT -5
Fresh what would you trade him for? I think he's better than a backup, a lot cheaper and better character than most starters and more versatile as well. I guess I'd consider trading him for a Matt Barnes. There's another guy with absolutely no potential at all, which means he is of course outplaying everyone on his team. I'd love to acquire him and put him with Gomes.
I'd like to see a no-potential championship team like the Dolphins No Name Defense.
Who'd make the team?
Noah
Gomes
Boozer
Battier
Matt Barnes
Arenas
Steve Nash
Emeka Okafor
Ben Gordon
Jay Williams
Smush Parker
Anthony Parker
Nocioni
who else? I'm just guessing.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Dec 27, 2006 14:38:49 GMT -5
Fresh what would you trade him for? What I meant was I wouldnt lose sleep in packaging him in a trade the way I would if we traded AlJeff or GG. |
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Post by eja117 on Dec 27, 2006 14:52:57 GMT -5
I guess I wouldn't lose sleep except when we played against him, or when the pword players on the team weren't getting the job done (again). Although it seems AL has emerged.
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Post by eja117 on Dec 27, 2006 15:01:49 GMT -5
I just checked out AL's game logs for his whole career and noticed two things. One is that this month he has basically been phenomenal. Unbeleivable. He is even getting assists. He is even having a better run than the run Gomes had last year when he burst onto the scene in late Feb to mid March. But I would point out this is usually his best time of year for some reason and last year his good run was stopped by injury. We're just plain not out of the woods yet. He might get a papercut or something, and then I'll lose karma for pointing out that an average high school basketball player usually doesn't miss three weeks with a papercut. Right Fresh?
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Post by freshnthehouse on Dec 27, 2006 15:40:56 GMT -5
Im confident that Al has shown more in the last two weeks that Gomes will ever show in his entire career. A low post guy demanding a double team? Poppa Bush was still in office the last time that happened.
And again, I have nothing against Gomes. I wouldnt mind seeing him a C for the rest of his career. But he is what he is: An undersized PF with average athleticism. Bigger PFs are always going to have a field day with him. Some recently reposted what opposing PFs are averaging against Gomes (cant remember which site. prolly celticsblog) and it was repulsive. He is never going to be able to play big (big = starters) minutes on a successful team
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2006 15:47:54 GMT -5
Gomes will be the Kenny Thomas/Eric Williams in this league. A very good back-up who can play spot-up starter minutes when called upon. Don't expect him to be a all-star or a 15 + pts starter then you won't be disappointed with his production.
I wouldn't trade him because of his age and how value he is for our bench.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Dec 27, 2006 15:49:00 GMT -5
Right, Fresh. One thing Gomes lacks is shot blocking ability. PF's score on him rather easily. That's one of the upperhands Powe has on him--Powe can block shots, and he's a bit more explosive.
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Post by eja117 on Dec 27, 2006 15:51:22 GMT -5
My only defense of Gomes is that if there were statistics for hustle and leadership he'd look more reasonable against AL.
I am confident that Gomes has shown more hustle in the last two weeks than AL J will show in his career. I am also waiting for Gomes' first nagging injury that he takes forever to recover from while I am still crossing my fingers on AL.
I totally agree Gomes is a backup. 6th-7th man type backup. But in the mean time playing him all the time at power forward would be like if AL was played at shooting guard or small forward. And Gomes still averaged more offensive rebs than AL until recently if he's still not right now.
They do different things and i never liked that people were overrating AL and underrating Gomes, but now it's hard to say people are overrating AL now that he has FINALLY shown SOMETHING, unlike Gomes who brings it every nite no matter what.
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Post by eja117 on Dec 27, 2006 15:56:38 GMT -5
Kenny Thomas is a great comparison. A great great player with maybe one weakness. Eric Williams is another great example in that all along he was better than Toine and nobody gave a darn about him? Oh he wasn't? Who was holding us back Eric W or Toine? Who's holding us back now? PP or West?
Until now I compared AL J to Kwame Brown, but now I'm totally upgrading him to.... Eddy Curry without all the idiocy and horridly bad weaknesses (TOs and FT%). AL has only minor weakness by comparison and seems to be doing better lately anyway.
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