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Post by esco33 on Oct 7, 2006 9:53:03 GMT -5
Out of these 3 players, 1 will be left with getting hardly any minutes. There is just not enough playing time on the court, especially with Doc's idea of mixing and matching lineups and also the fact that we have SO many players that can switch back in forth between different positions, (Rondo, Telfair, West, Pierce, Wally, Gomes, Allen, Ratliff, Big Al, etc. etc.)
You know that on that list Delonte is the first to get playing time by any means over the other 2. He just does too many things to sit. You know if he is healthy that he will play, possibly even start.
I was starting to think that with the off-court incident, T Allen would be the one to sit and possibly even get traded sometime in the future, and that Gerald would be the surprise breakout player this year and the one to take his spot and be the athletic scorer off the bench running the break with Telfair and providing a huge spark.
But it seems as if the organization is ecstatic that Tony is back to his old form and are hoping that he can be a bigger part of the rotation this year now that he is healthy providing athleticism, toughness, and defense.
It is a LONG season, and nothing is ever etched in stone and things change, but as it stands now, G $ is the one right now that looks as if he will be left out other than playing garbage time minutes. There are just too many solid players on this team right now for him to break into the rotation IMO.
(This is a great thing mind you for what it means for the team).
This is how I see it shaking out:
PG - Telfair SG - Wally/Tony (Wally still gets the edge early in the season but I think he plays the 3 if he starts and Pierce plays the 2) SF - Pierce PF - Gomes (I think Ryan has this spot locked up, although I hope for Big Al to be the starter C - Perk (This ones a tossup. Theo is making a run to being the starter)
Bench
1 - West 2 - Allen 3 - THIS IS WHERE GREEN SHOULD BE 4 - Big Al 5 - Theo
Here is the key:
I think Gerald should be able to backup at the 3. I just feel as if Delonte will play more 2 and that Rondo will really make some noise and play some backup point and possibly even pair with Telfair at times in the backcourt, and Allen either playing 3 or Gomes playing a little 3.
If it all unfolds like this, basically G $ will be the odd man out.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Oct 7, 2006 13:45:11 GMT -5
Gerald could be the odd man out this year, simply because of the numbers crunch. He is not ahead of either Delonte or Tony (but Delonte's back injury could open the door for Gerald). But I don't think for a second this will be the case down the line. Gerald has big time potential.
As for the debate over Tony or Delonte, again, Delonte's back injury allows more playing time for Allen. But as was mentioned in yesterday's news, Doc loves Allen's versatility, as he can cover the 1, 2 and 3 spots. And he adds speed, and judging by the lineup Doc was experimenting with the other day (Rajon, Telfair, Pierce, Wally and Theo), Doc is going to use fast lineups this year and Tony is likely to be a part of the mix.
One of Delonte's strengths is his shooting ability, and when you have playmaking PG's and low post scoring (courtesy of Al Jefferson) on the team, it helps to have shooters who can knock down perimeter shots. Tony is no match for Delonte in this department.
I'm sure we are going to see a lot different lineups early in the season.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Oct 7, 2006 17:42:10 GMT -5
I posted it someplace else, b ut at most there will be 23 minutes available at the 2/3 spot behind Paul and Wally. Basically one guy is going to get a lions share of those minutes. IMO allen will get a lions share of those minutes, with DWest accasionally moving to the 2 when we go with a small backcourt. Unless we suffer a lot of injuries, I doubt Green, Rondo, or Ray will get any significant minutes.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Oct 7, 2006 18:47:20 GMT -5
I too think that Allen will get more of the playing time. His defensive pressure, his speed, quickness and athleticism, and his slashing ability all make for a better fit in the uptempo game.
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cfoo
Welcome To Celtics Green!
Posts: 1
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Post by cfoo on Oct 11, 2006 22:43:08 GMT -5
This is even more reason why Wally won't be here for long. Green could be the odd man out until he is good enough to start, but once that happens we can dump Wally. Green needs to get time though. He is playing really well. Maybe Wally will have his annual injury and we won't have to worry about it. Ultimately I'd like things to shake out to be.
Telfair Pierce Green Gomes Perk
Bench
Rondo West Allen Jefferson Ratliff
I wouldn't be surprised to see ainge go after a Center for big money either in a trade or once Wally and Ratliff come off the books.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Oct 12, 2006 11:41:22 GMT -5
Well, considering that Delonte's not a guarantee to be fully healthy throughout the year (back) and Wally's knees are already swelling, Gerald may be benefiting from the circumstances. Had these 2 guys been healthy and playing well, Gerald may have a hard time getting into the rotation.
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Post by eja117 on Oct 12, 2006 15:20:49 GMT -5
Unless someone gets traded I think TA gets the least minutes of these three in a rational world. I base that on my opinion that GG has been significantly better than TA in the two preseason games so far. And that he never blew out a knee or got arrested. And he doesn't have nagging injuries. And he is still improving. I'm not sure if the others are.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Oct 12, 2006 16:10:54 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm a bit disappointed at Tony right now. I have high hopes in the guy, but so far this preseason, he hasn't been able to make a dent. Gerald has stood out much more than him (which is actually a good thing) and if he doesn't start to step up, he may be pushed aside.
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Post by esco33 on Oct 12, 2006 17:11:30 GMT -5
You know this is how I actually hoped it would go. Out of those 3, I rather have TA get the least minutes (Sorry Derren).
TA is the best defender of the 3, but I just think as talented as Gerald is he has to play. I really think he can do so much damage on the offensive end. I can see him scoring AT LEAST 15 points a game off the bench especially with him running the break with Rondo/Telfair and getting easy layups/dunks.
I really believe he is a star in the making, and I can see 4 or 5 years down the road the torch being passed from Pierce to Green. Hopefully they can form a formidable duo sooner than that and play a few years together at the 2 and 3 spot.
I say G $ replaces Wally by next year or the year after to team up with Pierce and provide the best 1-2 since Toine and Pierce.
But don't worry Derren, Doc will still leave G$ on the bench even if he drops 30 the next game just because he's a youngen and TA plays tenacious D.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Oct 12, 2006 17:59:43 GMT -5
I just feel that Tony has so many abilities he can contribute on the court, that I want him to succeed. But I'm also very high on Gerald, and I think in due time, Green will pass him by.
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Post by esco33 on Oct 12, 2006 18:10:50 GMT -5
I like Tony too, but this team is just so jam packed with wing players, I just do not see both of them staying on with the team in the future. I think one makes the other expendable. We already have Pierce, Wally, and Delonte who will I believe play primarily shooting guard as Rondo continues to impress running the point.
I like TA, but Gerald is a star in the making, and whoever does better in the next year or two will determine a lot of who stays and who goes, also TA's pending court case will have an impact as well.
Then again Danny could also trade Gerald Green for a vet in the future, but I hope he sticks with him, because I believe we eventually have a successor to Pierce in 5 years. Gerald's just still so young. He could be in the league another 10-15 years.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Oct 12, 2006 20:44:22 GMT -5
The problem with Tony, as I see it, is that he's at his best when he has the ball. Much like Gerald, scoring without the ball isn't his strong suit at this time. Tony is definitely not a catch and shoot guy. He's a slasher who likes to take his man off the dribble, and when he does that, he often gets to the rim or assists his teammate in scoring.
But as in the case in his rookie season and parts of last year, Tony would be a bystander. He did a good job of blending in with the refs. But as we've seen toward the end of last season, Tony got to play some PG and he really came alive. He was scoring in double figures, his confidence was growing and he was just playing fantastically. He needs to find a way to be this active and engaging without having to play PG.
Tony needs to learn how to move without the ball so that he can be a moving target for our incredible PG's. They'll spot him if he's slashing.
I have confidence in Tony because I know that once his game starts rolling, he'll be a big part of our rotation. But he's got to make his presence felt and he's got to be more consistent.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Oct 17, 2006 15:29:08 GMT -5
Alright, if it wasn't clear before, it certainly is now. We are way overcrowded at the 2 and 3. With the recent acquisition of Luke Jackson, we now have Pierce, Wally, Gerald, Tony, Gomes, Delonte, Ray and Luke who can play the 2 or 3.
This is just too much, especially since we have 2 star caliber players in Pierce and Wally, and a star in the making in Gerald.
This just screams "trade"!!! At some point, a couple of these guys are not going to be on the team. The question is which ones.
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Post by eja117 on Oct 17, 2006 15:59:27 GMT -5
Well my first thought is "the ones who aren't good or don't have a future with the team." So that implies to me LJ and Wally due to the whole knee thing. Plus he has a moderately big contract. I also thing guys like West and TA ought to be very careful with their health and legal situations if they want to stay. And they all ought to plan on playing well too. In the mean time having so many wings here makes PP more expendable than ever from a talent perspective but I think there's some sort of law that says you can't sign a guy to an extension and tell the whole world he's a major part of the future and imply you're signing him cause he stuck by you through tough times and then trade him for say... a KG. In the mean time if anyone would break that law it is clearly DA. If anyone is willing to make a tough and unpopular trade it's him. Right Toine?
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Post by Ossric on Oct 17, 2006 17:08:39 GMT -5
Tony has an uncertain future with us. not good enough to bypass PP or Wally, not as much potential as GG. unless Wally gets injured, i expect Tony to see some significant minutes at the start of the season to showcase him. GG will take over his minutes towards the end of the season.
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