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Post by eja117 on Jul 20, 2006 20:08:16 GMT -5
Fresh I think the team has improved with trades and can keep improving with more. I honestly have a hard time believing that a washed up missed his chance and extremely expensive guy like KG isn't on the table. I do not believe that if McHale had the chance to reduce his payroll a few million and add quality young talent and p word that he wouldn't do it. If he won't then he is deluding himself in the same retarded manner that Philly is.
You put a salary guy like Theo Ratliff on the table, look McHale in the eye and say "this guy's contract is up in two years. After that $10 million comes off your books."
In addition we'll put Al J, Powe, Scala, TA, and Sebastian Telfaire on the table.
You can have a good young power forward to replace KG, a proven wing, a good young pg, a good backup and another young big with a lot of pword to compete with Al. You can have any combo of these guys. We'll also give you $2 mill, a second rounder and the ability to trade draft choices in the 2009 draft. You can start over but KG will never beat the Duncans of the world. He didn't before and now that he's older he won't. You missed your chance. Take it or leave it.
Then make the exact same trade offer for whatever team gets Oden.
Then make a similar offer for Dwight Howard.
Then make a reduced offer for Amare and see what the counter offer is.
Then make an offer for TT straight up for Al J, some cash, and a 2nd rounder.
If that fails see if we can get LaMarcus Alridge for Al J straight up. Lamarcus has a rookie contract for 3 years. We have to decide to pay Al next year. They are the same age but Alridge did something in college and has no NBA mileage on him.
Then call the Suns and say "You got beat pretty tough in the playoffs and Amare got hurt. It looks like you missed your chance. We want Nash." Then put every player I mentioned on the table as well as Wally, D West, a first round pick, and Rondo.
Then call the Mavs, and inquire about Novitski.
if all that fails start seeing if we can get first round picks from teams that are likely to do badly in the future for players we don't want to resign. teams like Golden State and players like TA.
See if we can get an unprotected pick for Al J straight up from a team that is newly confident like Portland or Toronto.
Then make a call about Bosh.
if all that fails, stay put and play Gomes until Al j has actually decisively beaten him out. If he fails then offer him a small backup type contract.
Then call the Knicks. They need to cut salary and look active. See if we can get Eddy Curry cheap. he played the whole year with no real problems.
Then consider trading D West for a draft pick and sign Allen Ray.
But whatever you do don't ever believe when a GM says i won't trade this washed up guy who missed his shot.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Jul 20, 2006 21:17:30 GMT -5
Every one of the trade scenarios you have suggested would involve a Gm falling out og his chair laughing, and it wouldnt be Danny Ainge. You gotta remember, the other teams want to win as well. And to say that Minny would be foolish not to make the trade? Well, you could make the same assumption in regards to the Celtics and Paul Pierce. Remember, we were as bad as minnesota was last year. Seriously, take a look at the trade you offered.
An overpaid big-man- Ratliff An overpaid pile of suck- Scala A second rounder who may not make the active roster- Powe A mid-round pick PG who hasnt proven anything yet-Telfair A mid-round pick big man who has shown a glimpses of talent but hasd yet to prove himself-Al A mid-round pick SG that that is not overly talented and has serious legal troubles on the horizon- Allen So basically, they are trading KG a former MVP who is still in his prime, for a PG, SG and PF product who need a lot of work. Ratliff's salary is irrelevent bc they still wont have serious cap room even after Ratliff's salary go off the books.
In all honesty, do you REALLY think that McHale would be foolish for not making that trade? Because in my opinion, that trade is hilarious.
Also, if you think that AlJeff is lazy and injury prone, why would you want to trade for Eddy Curry?
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Post by eja117 on Jul 21, 2006 0:19:45 GMT -5
Then i guess we should all stop saying "we should trade our young guys" and "we'll probably have to move someone" cause I guess it can't be done.
Why do you think DA isn't making trades for Iverson? Cause he knows he's washed up.
To be fair Minn was foolish for not trading KG. If Foye doesn't become the next D Wade (in the words of the completely unbiased Dickie V) then Minn will never win a thing with KG. In fact he will have a very hard time ever even getting to the 3 round of the playoffs. his contract is way too big and he is not at all in his prime. His career is waaayyy more than half over. He is a very very seasoned vet now, with a huuuuuuge contract that crippled his team for basically the whole time he has been with them. Basically KG is their future. Our young guys are our future and the future of our guys would be faaaaaarrrrr brighter (it wouldn't even be debatable) if not for the presence of Randy Foye who dominated summer league. Even with Foye, if we played a game against them next month we'd probably win and not cause we have a bunch of vets. Only in addition to our young guys we have a couple good vets like Wally and PP. And GG is our answer to Foye. Heck. Gomes is. Do they really think they will ever beat Duncan and Parker with KG and Foye? KG has also shown he doesn't get along with good players like Wally, and personally i don't like guys that cry in interviews cause they were never able to lead their team anywhere.
We don't have to beat Duncan and Parker with our guys. That's Minn's cross to bear. We have to beat guys like D Howard, TT, Oden, and Okafor with they guys we have and we have a better chance of doing that with our guys than they have of ever beating Duncan with KG.
So yes they are quite foolish. What do they think they're gonna get for KG? Lebron? Iverson? Adam Morrison? They can have Wally too obviously.
Personally I would have liked to trade PP but instead they extended his contract.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Jul 21, 2006 1:30:00 GMT -5
Do they really think they will ever beat Duncan and Parker with KG and Foye? KG has also shown he doesn't get along with good players like Wally, and personally i don't like guys that cry in interviews cause they were never able to lead their team anywhere. So yes they are quite foolish. What do they think they're gonna get for KG? Lebron? Iverson? Adam Morrison? They can have Wally too obviously. Do i think the T-wolves could beat the Spurs? Of course not. Do I think we can beat the heat next year? Of course not. Would I trade Paul Pierce for a handful of magic beans? Of course not. 'But we can't win the title with this team!' That may be true, but I dont think trading your star for pesos on the dollar is gonna get you any closer. Especially when this star hasnt indicated that he wants to leave. This trade makes absolutely no sense for Minny. There getting six guys for pete's sake. Half of them would be cut before they ever put on a jersey. And in regards to KG, he didn't get along with Wally because Wally likes to whine about his minutes. To say that KG is nothing short of team leader is uninformed. And if I remember correctly, Larry Bird cried when he was interviewed after he lost the 1979 NCAA championship. He turned out to be an all right player. And also, Philly would trade Iverson for Garnett in a heartbeat.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Jul 21, 2006 1:35:48 GMT -5
Why do you think DA isn't making trades for Iverson? Cause he knows he's washed up. The reason DA hasnt traded for Iverson is because the 76ers are asking for too much. If they would stop their demads for both Al and Green, Ainge will gobble up Iverson ASAP. With the current contracts being handed out, KG is not that overpaid. He makes less than 3 mill a year more than Pierce. Also, KG is 30 years old. He is not past his prime, he is in his prime.
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Post by eja117 on Jul 21, 2006 9:06:39 GMT -5
30 is definitely past his prime and while Philly would trade iverson for KG in a heart beat Minn would never trade KG for AI and if they did it would be stupid. It be especially stupid to trade KG for AI if they could get some of our young guys instead.
Could we beat the Heat? With KG and PP and our young guys in a year or two that would be quite possible.
Almost all our young guys would make the team in Minn. They didn't pick before us cause they were better than us. When you put our star (PP) against theirs (KG) theirs is better. Every single player after that ours is better. Wally is better than Ricky D. Delonte is better than McCants so far. Perk is better than Blount. Gomes is better than Reed. For now GG is better than Foye and even TA might be. Rondo and Telfair are better than Troy Hudson. Our guys would not only make the team but start. Even Scala may be better than Reed who got significant minutes for them.
Larry Bird earned the right to cry cause he single handedly took a team from obscurity to the championship game. KG hasn't cause his contract single handedly sabotaged his team. And maybe Wally should have been given more minutes.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Jul 21, 2006 14:32:02 GMT -5
30 is definitely past his prime I dont know how to answer this besdies saying, no, it isnt. Look at almost every good players careeer. Most players are playing at their peaks from about 27-33. Look at Garnett's numbers. There is defineately no significant drop. I cant believe Im arguing this. But we dont have KG. With that line of thinking, T-Wolves fans should be offering us a pile of garbage for Pierce, because they would def. contend if they had KG and Pierce. Again, no they wouldnt. I doubt they are going to start cutting guys that are making 5-6 mill a year to put a bunch of garbage in the rotation. Youre right. They were equally as bad as us. They were lucky enough to win the coin flip. For the most part i agree with this, except for a couple of exceptions. Wally, IMO is equal to Ricky D. I believe that Wally is a better fit for us than Ricky, just as Ricky is a better fit for Minny than Wally was. Wally was def. a much bigger headache for Minny than Ricky was for us. Also, I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that Foye will be 10x better than either Tony Allen of Gerald Green next year. Also, Mike James will be a better PG next year than either Telfair or Rondo. Id def take either Telfair of Rondo over Mike James, but for the time being, James is the better player. KG single-handedly turned around a moribund franchise that had never had a winning season and was on the verged of being moved. Also, KG's contract isnt what hamstrung this team. The T-Wolves owner has never been scared of going into the luxery tax. What killed the T-Wolves was losing 4 first round picks in the Joe Smith debacle, and McHale's propensity to overpay players. And in reagrdes to Wally, is it a coincidence that they had their best season when Wally was coming off the bench. I've been kind to Wally so far, and he has been a complete professional in Boston, but he was nothing short of a whiny punk in Minny.
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Post by eja117 on Jul 21, 2006 15:14:26 GMT -5
Touche touche
I shouldn't say 30 is past prime although not that many players play till they are 30 and his career is certainly more than half over, but it is past his peak, which for an NBA player is usually 29 so it's very close.
Saying almost all our guys are better than their but that they wouldn't make the team in a fair competition is contradictory. i don't take into account NBAconomics, which is the least reasonable economic system in the history of time, even more so than having a king or communism.
If the Wolves offered us a good young pg and a good young pf for PP i would totally take it. So yes I would take a Rondo and a TT or D West for PP any day of the week, and pay them about 17 million less. Is that crazy?
having 4 late round picks (Doody Ebi anyone?) would not have changed the Wolves as it didn't change the Spurs or Lakers (Leon Smith anyone?) but overpaying players definitely hurt them a lot.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Jul 21, 2006 15:24:31 GMT -5
Also, one karma point for Eja. I've havent been this eager to read someone's responses in a while. We need more of this kind of banter during the long hot months of the off-season.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Jul 21, 2006 15:30:11 GMT -5
having 4 late round picks (Doody Ebi anyone?) would not have changed the Wolves as it didn't change the Spurs or Lakers (Leon Smith anyone?) but overpaying players definitely hurt them a lot. I'd say late 1st rounders helped the Spurs(tony parker). The lack of any young talent, even if its only back-up material, really hurt the Wolves. After the Spreewell and Cassell fell out of favor in Minny, they def. couldve used some young guys to help take up some of those backcourt minutes. Also, if they couldve grown some of their own depth, they wouldnt have felt obligated to overpay for the likes of Mark Madesn, Troy Hudson, Marko Jaric, Trent Hassell.
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Post by eja117 on Jul 21, 2006 15:50:17 GMT -5
I agree even late draft picks help but if the Spurs hadn't drafted Parker they could have found a Chucky Atkins off the scrap heap and still won. Now if they had had Atkins and Minn had had Parker it's a lot tougher to say, so i don't know. karma for Fresh for standing up to me and calling me out like a MAN! And Dmatts too.
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Post by Roadrunner on Jul 22, 2006 22:00:31 GMT -5
Their is no comparison to RC Buford, and K McHale. Former Celtic or not, K Mchale is rookie compared to the master, RC Buford.
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