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Post by eja117 on May 19, 2021 8:01:19 GMT -5
And that's the problem
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Post by afceltic on May 19, 2021 11:47:13 GMT -5
I was thinking the same thing, the only difference is that both Jay's are better than the Cubby Chucker. Pierce is obviously the best of the four, but this duo is overall a more talented duo. The problem is that Danny has put little to nothing around them, which as you mentioned is the same situation Paul an Tone were in.
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Post by runrondo on May 19, 2021 11:53:28 GMT -5
If I had to pick anyone to match Toine's poor shot selection and inefficiency, it has to be Smart. But, that'd only be if Smart started taking 20+ shots a game. Toine shot more shots during Pierce's career year in 01-02 (26.1ppg) and was shooting below 40%. Live and die by that 3 team.
Tatum and Brown are pretty darn efficient when you look at numbers, but Tatum certainly needs to read the flow of the game better and learn that not every bucket is created equally if one takes that much more effort than the other.
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Post by freshnthehouse on May 19, 2021 13:14:36 GMT -5
While there's some similarities between toine and Tatum, Toine isn't even in the same stratosphere as Tatum. Tatum's worst fg%, 3pt% and ft% seasons would be antoine's best. And Tatum is a fantastic defender, while Antoine on his best day was average (and we didn't get many 'best days'). Tatum made the all-nba third team as a 21 year old. Antoine never sniffed that level of success even in his prime. If the C's offered up Tatum on the market they would get flooded with picks. To move Antoine we had to be willing to take on Lafrentz's terrible deal (which imo was still the smart move cuz they needed to get antoine off this team).
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Post by eja117 on May 19, 2021 18:47:46 GMT -5
I don't believe that a team that takes as many lazy threes as this one will ever win a ring. Tatum is in love with the lazy three. Smart is as well, but Smart is an elite defender.
Tatum is soft.
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Post by afceltic on May 20, 2021 8:02:09 GMT -5
If I had to pick anyone to match Toine's poor shot selection and inefficiency, it has to be Smart. But, that'd only be if Smart started taking 20+ shots a game. Toine shot more shots during Pierce's career year in 01-02 (26.1ppg) and was shooting below 40%. Live and die by that 3 team. Tatum and Brown are pretty darn efficient when you look at numbers, but Tatum certainly needs to read the flow of the game better and learn that not every bucket is created equally if one takes that much more effort than the other. I see Tatum as very inefficient due to taking bad shots that he learned from Kobe and too many lazy three's. When he fixes those issues by going to the rim more and getting to the line more often then he will truly have taken the next step. The last game vs the Wizards was exactly what he needs to do, he made it to the line and went 17-17 and that comes with being aggressive. Stop trying to be the next Kobe and be the first Tatum. As for Smart I think his defense is grossly overrated by Celtic fans, we really need to move him with his expiring contract this off season and give this team a heart transplant.
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Post by eja117 on May 23, 2021 14:55:35 GMT -5
I also agree the Smart thing has run its course. I don't think he fits in with Jaylen and Tatum. Smart has gotten better with his passing, and sometimes can restrain himself, but his defense regressed this year, and he just doesn't get it done. Look at how much better Evan Fournier works as a combo guard offensively. Evan is smoother and forces the other team to run more and defend more. I think Smart would be better on a team like Denver. This team needs way more movement than Smart provides.
I think Tristan T sorta slows the team down too in a similar way. It's too bad R Will isn't way healthier than he is. We need another guy like him, not Tristan or Grant Williams. Maybe Grant could be a small ball center, but he's not a power forward in this league, and Semi isn't either. I really hoped Semi had turned a corner, but he can't be more than an end of the bench guy with some 3 and D. Romeo has shown very little.
That leaves us with hoping Nesmith can keep taking a step forward to be a solid 3/D player. If the team were healthy, Jaylen, Tatum, Kemba, Evan, and a solid Nesmith would probably be a good enough offensive team. Jaylen and R Will could provide defense, but you need a way better bench than that and you need way more defense than that, and you need way more health than that. I'm afraid Ainge will draft another undersized wing. He needs another stringy center like R Will.
It would also be very helpful if Pritchard could evolve into some version of TJ McConnell, but my hopes aren't high for that.
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Post by afceltic on May 24, 2021 7:15:44 GMT -5
I also agree the Smart thing has run its course. I don't think he fits in with Jaylen and Tatum. Smart has gotten better with his passing, and sometimes can restrain himself, but his defense regressed this year, and he just doesn't get it done. Look at how much better Evan Fournier works as a combo guard offensively. Evan is smoother and forces the other team to run more and defend more. I think Smart would be better on a team like Denver. This team needs way more movement than Smart provides. I think Tristan T sorta slows the team down too in a similar way. It's too bad R Will isn't way healthier than he is. We need another guy like him, not Tristan or Grant Williams. Maybe Grant could be a small ball center, but he's not a power forward in this league, and Semi isn't either. I really hoped Semi had turned a corner, but he can't be more than an end of the bench guy with some 3 and D. Romeo has shown very little. That leaves us with hoping Nesmith can keep taking a step forward to be a solid 3/D player. If the team were healthy, Jaylen, Tatum, Kemba, Evan, and a solid Nesmith would probably be a good enough offensive team. Jaylen and R Will could provide defense, but you need a way better bench than that and you need way more defense than that, and you need way more health than that. I'm afraid Ainge will draft another undersized wing. He needs another stringy center like R Will. It would also be very helpful if Pritchard could evolve into some version of TJ McConnell, but my hopes aren't high for that. I agree with everything you say here other than I am hoping for Pritchard to become another JJ Redick, not a TJ McConnell.
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Post by jmost on May 24, 2021 9:18:39 GMT -5
I think we're going to see big turnover over the summer. Grant played 1 minute in Game 1, and Semi not at all. Parker played 22 minutes. I think that gives us an idea of where we're headed. Parker is no defensive stopper but he does provide better size and hugely better offense than either of the other two.
The thing that drove me crazy about Toine was that he NEVER LEARNED anything from year to year. Every preseason I'd hope he had worked on his game, and every year, in the first few minutes of the first preseason game, he'd get the same shot blocked inside that he was getting blocked the previous year. No hook shot, or upfake or anything, and I'd say to myself "Here we go again". Not to mention the chucking from outside.
I don't see that from Tatum. Clearly he works a lot on his game. To me his biggest flaw is that he seems to work more on making hard shots than on creating easy shots. Jaylen is much better at this.
I agree that Smart's D is vastly overrated. He makes one or more amazing defensive plays each game, often ripping the ball right out of the opposition's hands, but he can't stop any good scoring guard one on one and that's been obvious for a while.
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Post by freshnthehouse on May 24, 2021 19:19:54 GMT -5
If anything, Antoine's game devolved. He became lazier as his run in boston went along. His %es in that last season were appalling. 32% on threes, and was shooting over 7 a game. .388 field goal percentage. 62% from the line. Plus, he was pretty much done playing defense at that point.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jun 2, 2021 20:23:27 GMT -5
Hard to gauge if Brad has any negative feelings about any of his players, but has there been any indication that Brad isn't too keen on Tatum?
I wonder who he honestly favors more -- Tatum or Brown?
Does the new head coach want to continue building around the Jays?
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Post by jrmzt on Jun 3, 2021 5:08:23 GMT -5
Well this topic didn't age well given Tatum's show outs against the Nets.
Tatum's 3s are fine. Its how the league is built. But the thing that our guys don't do enough is keeping active when they don't have the ball. You see guys like Curry constantly running around and through multiple screens to frustrate the defense.. and I see alot of iso that Tatum plays when he should actually be moving along the baseline and taking the screens to get better looks.
In fact, if we had a proper floor general...someone like Rondo in his prime, you'd see both Jaylen and Jayson play more structured sets. Remember that Kobe had Phil and the triangle which was a fluid but structured motion..and something along those lines could really benefit the team instead of the alpha one-on-one playstyle.
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Post by jmost on Jun 3, 2021 7:51:45 GMT -5
I agree completely jrmzt. We need a floor general. Kemba is a shoot first guard. Smart thinks he's Curry and Pritchard's ceiling as a playmaker is limited.
I have read that the Israeli PG we drafted last year in the 2nd round wants to come over to the NBA next year. I wonder if he's any good.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jun 3, 2021 12:36:02 GMT -5
I agree completely jrmzt. We need a floor general. Kemba is a shoot first guard. Smart thinks he's Curry and Pritchard's ceiling as a playmaker is limited. I have read that the Israeli PG we drafted last year in the 2nd round wants to come over to the NBA next year. I wonder if he's any good. Yam Mader is kinda small, and he's quick. But not who I think can run this team. We've heard for years that Brad wanted a team full of 6'8" positionless players, and Ainge got him guys like IT, Kyrie and Kemba at the Point. Maybe GM Brad will look to get tall PGs.
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Post by jrmzt on Jun 3, 2021 14:49:06 GMT -5
Pity...the perfect 6'8 positionless player for us, would be Cade Cunningham. But no way we're getting him. We'd have to trade Tatum for that no.1 pick.
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