cfoo
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Post by cfoo on Sept 10, 2014 0:39:21 GMT -5
www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/extras/celtics_blog/2014/09/celtics_rank_a_disappointing_24th_in_espns_future_power_rank.htmlManagement: 12th Market: 14th Players: 29th Money: 9th Draft: 2nd I've never been one to listen too much to espn. I think they are biased and miss what boston is about sometimes. I'm also higher on KO than most people and Marcus Smart. We also have Rondo going into the season. Bradley, Green, Turner and guys like that have some questions but 29th in league talent? 12th in management? Market they have us middle of the pack and upper tier as far as money. We are 2nd in draft which is understandable considering all the picks we have. We also have danny ainge at the helm. I'm not as high on our management as some. I think we listen to the media too much and wish the Celtics would get some balls sometimes. We don't have the same leadership we once did when we had the old brass still running things. I don't think DA is as good as those guys but he's still a really good GM. I think DA's strength and flaw at the same time is he listens and sits back and tries to find the best options but at the same time it's a strength and weakness. I think he listens too much sometimes. Red was a pretty aggressive GM in his day and knew what he wanted. So was Tommy Heinsohn as a leader. He had a vision of what he wanted. I still am not sure what it is Ainge exactly wants with all these draft picks. I think he's listened and gone out and ended up with what we have and I'm not sure he even knows what he's going to do with it.
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cfoo
Welcome To Celtics Green!
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Post by cfoo on Sept 10, 2014 2:27:43 GMT -5
The reason I think our talent is better than a lot of people give us credit for is I look around the league and we don't have a lot of stars. I think we definately could use some more talent and our record was pretty bad last year but Rondo was not healthy. We started off the season pretty good. I think people look at this team and see it very differently than me though and like these guys aren't that good. I don't necessarily disagree but I think if you look around hte league ainge has been drafting players with talent later in the draft that slid for reasons. Jeff Green regardless whether people like him or not is still in the upper half of small forwards in the league. It depends what he does and if he fades but he's still a top 15 sf I would say. Rondo is a top tier pg. Bradley was a highschooler who was highly touted who slid in the draft. He has had injury issues but I think he is in the mix with some of the better sgs around if he continues to improve. Wes Matthews is a a top 15 sg. Overlooked but bradley can get in that class. Sully gets a lot of hype from Jackie Mac. Another JAckie Mac fabrication in ways but the guy was a top tier player and slid in the draft and is entering his 3rd year now. I think KO is just as talented. I dont think either guy is great but players that are in that league average and can be better than that too and have upside. We drafted well with Smart. We added Evan Turner who should make a bigger impact here than he did in indiana. Phoenix is not a star studded team but is a talented team that was overlooked with guys with potential that hit at the right time last year. Noone thought that team would be any good.
Ainge has a ton of draft picks and there are going to be changes but we are still evaluating what we have in ways. I think at every position we have players who can be in that top 15 or so at their respective positions. Players have to develop so we can see what we have even still. I think a lot of people want to trade guys before they even get a chance to do that. It's also why the bradley signing was smart. We are still early in the rebuild and retaining our players is important.
KO more than likely isn't going to be the next Dirk Nowitski here. I think his body is different than Dirk. Dirk was really special in that regard. KO is more a workman type guy and roleplayer but he can still do some things. He has some Dirk to his game. Sully is right there with him and I think how they do will determnine our season in ways. We may trade some of these guys but I'm in no rush to do that.
I think espn is wrong in that regard ranking us 29th in the league in talent. We were the 6th worst team last year playing without rondo and our b est player for the majority of the year and drafted Marcus Smart. Added Evan Turner, Tyler ZEller and Thornton. How did we go to 29th? I don't see that. That makes no sense. Bradley was also injured. KO was a rookie. Sully was in his 2nd year. WE played with no center all of last year and still finished 6th worst.
They have us 24th overall in future rankings whatever that means due to our management and upcoming draft picks. Thats us m oving up 2 spots from last year which makes some sense. But even still Wyc Grousbeck and his wallet didn't affect our record last year. Or did it? I still dont think we are the 29th worst taletned team in the league.
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cfoo
Welcome To Celtics Green!
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Post by cfoo on Sept 10, 2014 15:15:38 GMT -5
After sleeping on it there are currently 30 teams in the nba and so espn is saying we are 6th and didn't improve at all this offseason. We are the 2nd worst team in the league talentwise and brad stevens apparently made us the 6th worst team. I'm still not sure I buy that. With a healthy Rondo. If we trade Rondo and Green for nothing and this becomes another tough year of changes and this team caught in between we could end up the 2nd worst team in the league. KO is probably going to improve though. Sully is ab out on the same level. Bradley is healthy. We added Marcus Smart who should make an impact. Green is still one of those guys who is in the top half of small forwards in the league like him or not.
Still not sure where I'd put this team right now. I think we can go anywhere from being a bottom dweller to making the playoffs and winning the division. Mathematically not sure how espn thinks we are the 2nd worst team in the league talentwise either. Were we the worst last year? I think with Rondo or whoever we trade him for I don't think we are that low
This is also their future power rankings for 2014/2015, 2015/2016, and 2016/2017. I think espn is on crack if they this we will average 6th in power rankings over those 3 years. We were 6th this year so we aren't going to get any better in the next 3 years taking into account our management and the amount of draft picks we have? That is nearly mathematically impossible.
If we go the slow rebuild and draft young players and draft a young center and let him develop we might linger at the bottom for a bit, but even still. Tim Duncan made an impact right away.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Sept 10, 2014 15:38:00 GMT -5
I pretty much agree with where espn ranks us in each category (give our take a few spots on the list). I think right now we are currently pretty low on the talent list, but just how low will be determined with how the Rondo situation plays out.
What I disagree with is the percentage that they put on each category. I think management/ownership plays a much bigger role in the future success in a franchise than what this chart is giving it.
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cfoo
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Post by cfoo on Sept 10, 2014 15:40:17 GMT -5
If we are on average the 6th worst team over the next 3 y ears that would mean we'd be targeting guys like Jabari parker and wiggins once their rookie deals expire. I kind of have a hard time believing that too because Ainge would have made a harder push for them considering.
At least we'll have 3 years of watching KO and fun basketball but it's going ot be like those early 90's Celtics teams. I still have a hard time believing ainge won't do something before then. Only so many players in the league though. It's not going to be easy and take patience but even still.
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cfoo
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Post by cfoo on Sept 10, 2014 15:42:25 GMT -5
If we trade off Rondo and Green or don't reup Rondo. We go with Smart. Let Rondo walk or whatever vs taking back crap in a deal we don't need I can see it. that's still pretty low.
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cfoo
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Post by cfoo on Sept 10, 2014 15:46:58 GMT -5
Ainge has his work cut out for him if that's the ideal situation. It might be because there aren't many players I see around the league worth dealing for or paying big money for right now. Rondo could very well end up just testing free agency and walking. We groom smart. KO tides us over. He'd also have to keep passing on every trade that comes our way.
Maybe that's ainge' s genius right there.
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cfoo
Welcome To Celtics Green!
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Post by cfoo on Sept 10, 2014 15:50:40 GMT -5
It also explains why ainge would show interest in guys like wiggins and parker but wasn't willing to sell the farm for them to move up. He got a pg and smart and what he needed right now and played the patience card. Will let rondo play out this year and see what comes along and let him walk if need be. He showed in interest in Kevin love and pairing him with rondo but how much interest who knows. I don't think it was ever his intent to sell the farm for Kevin Love. So 5 years of good drafting. Stevens learning as a coach. KO entertaining the fans. I still think we have more talent than that as it stands though.
That's what it would take to make espn's prediction come true. Ainge would basically have to continue to slowly dismantle this thing and play the math on that. With Rondo this year I don't know though. We have too much talent as it stands. Rondo might not buy in and everything and this year becomes a mess but yeah.
We want Rondo to be a showpiece this year if that is the case anyways. SEe what we can get in a deal. For that we want him to play well. Maybe not so much a team player but to play well.
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Post by Roadrunner on Sept 11, 2014 18:10:09 GMT -5
The issue w/ building a young team is the CBA. I posted a while ago that OKC would have an issue when they were resigning KD, Westie, Ibaka, and Harden.
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cfoo
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Post by cfoo on Sept 11, 2014 19:01:34 GMT -5
I agree the mavs when they had kidd, mashburne and jim Jackson was the same thing. Golden state too. Teams like that don't usually work. You need a mix. I also think as it stands we are too talented to be bottom feeders for the next 3 years. It really can go either way at this point. I don't think DA is dead set on dismantling what we have. I think he's still trying to build with it which in that case ESPN is on crack. The issue is finding the right guys to do that though which isn't going to be easy. It's going to take a lot of work and listening to various scenarios but at the same time just tuning that out and focusing on what the Celtics are trying to do.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Sept 12, 2014 12:52:57 GMT -5
The issue w/ building a young team is the CBA. I posted a while ago that OKC would have an issue when they were resigning KD, Westie, Ibaka, and Harden. A team with ownership like the C's would've kept that time together. OKC's ownership should be ashamed of themselves for not keeping that core together. They've been making bigtime money off that fanbase. Going cheap is going to catch up to them in the long run. Fans remember stuff like that.
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cfoo
Welcome To Celtics Green!
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Post by cfoo on Sept 12, 2014 17:52:26 GMT -5
I hope we kick some (censored). 4 years of losing according espn is a bit much too. Fans remember stuff like that too.
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