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Post by The Eye of the Q is upon you! on Jul 12, 2005 12:26:25 GMT -5
OK here is the Celtics dilemma as I see it.
Too many Shooting Guards. This is epidemic league wide. In fact this is the direct fallout of the Micheal Jordan era. Everyone wants to be like Mike.
There is also a lack of good Point Guards and Centers.
The Celtics, for instance, have been toying around with the likes of JR Bremer and Mike James in the interim to Banks and Delonte West.
My biggest fear is that we get passed by teams that have drafted good point guards and that we may not get that window of opportunity to contend.
Once Shaq retires, the PF and Center spots almost become one and the same position.
The Celtics have a good young nucleus - Perkins, Jefferson, Green, Allen, West/Banks. LaFrentz, Davis, and Justin Reed are good role players. The people who really don't fit in long term are the 3 legacy Pitino/Ga$ton players - namely Blount, Walker, and Pierce.
Shouldn't we be able to fill the Veteran PG, anad Veteran big man for those legacy Pitino/Ga$ton players?
I'm not saying trade them this summer, but they should all be shopped.
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Post by ferbo on Jul 12, 2005 12:48:28 GMT -5
Its one thing to "shop" AW and Blount. AW is a FA and control is limited. Blount is an underachiever, so no downside.
Real problemis PP. If he gets the impression that he is being "shopped," will affect his play (and the team), which would further reduce his value.
Technically PP has been playing SF, with TA at the 2, then Davis. And I would guess that his value is lower than at any time in some years. I can't see PP getting much improvement over Raef at the 5. And I think any PGs of interest are going to be hyoung and still developing. Unless you want to take on Marbury or some such.
PLUS 3 of the guys in the 2-3 mix have yet to prove anything. And Allen just a smidgeon.
NOW, DA has proven he will pull the trigger. Just ask AW. And we know he was pissed at PPs elbow, and not pleased with a good bit of his last year. So I'm assuming that while DA isn't going to be "shopping" PP, he will be in a good listening mode.
I'm not sure I believe the team will be able to swap PP and get in return a player who will be as good or better at another position as he is. You can roll the dice and ASSUME that one of the kids will fill his slot---and that is what it is---rolling the dice.
When DA swapped AW, he did not get back a player who was as good as AW. He got a player (in Raef) who was more in sync with what DA wanted to play like. There is a limit to which that is a good idea.
PP conceivable has another 8-10 years of a good career ahead of him. So that's got to stand out in one's mind.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jul 12, 2005 22:58:40 GMT -5
I have a starting lineup I'm envisioning in my head, and I see no problem with our wing situation if it comes out this way:
PG- Delonte
SG- Allen
SF- Green
PF- Jefferson
C- Perkins
second unit
Banks
Ricky
Gomes
Reed
I think eventually, Pierce will not be here any longer. At some point, whether when its time to renew his contract or before that, he will be moved to usher a total movement to the new generation. Green and Allen are both worlds ahead of him in athleticism and quickness and I think Ainge and Rivers will be so pleased with the 2 of them that losing Pierce in the long run will not be painful. Gerald Green can be a star offensive player and Tony Allen impacts both ends of the floor.
Ricky Davis is almost a lock at the backup wing slot. He has found his niche there and he is blossoming in that role.
Delonte can cover the SG spot at times.
You are absolutely right about our PG and C positions. We just don't have a surefire prospect at either spot--starting or on the bench. Delonte and Perkins are the guys I envision, but that doesn't mean I think they are guaranteed those spots. I do want upgrades at those 2 positions if at all possible. Delonte and Perkins should turn out to be solid and steady players. But sometimes, solid and steady aren't enough to win championships.
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Post by Celtic17 on Jul 12, 2005 23:22:22 GMT -5
I see it this way - down the road...
1 - D West
2 - G Green
3 - J Reed
4 - A Jefferson
5 - K Perkins
bench -
Davis
Allen
Gomes
and a yet to be seen 4 or 5
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Post by BCHISTORIAN on Jul 13, 2005 1:23:57 GMT -5
the team i envision is the same that derren envisions!
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jul 13, 2005 4:03:03 GMT -5
Well, BC, great minds think alike ;D
C17, Justin Reed could end up in the starting lineup if he becomes a defensive stud like Artest and Bowen--and if Doc feels like having a defensive stopper in the starting lineup is more important than more offensive production out of the starting lineup.
With Tony Allen in at SG, Green should be the SF. Tony Allen is a terrific defender too and he's a riot in the passing lanes, as he is always a threat to pick pocket the bad guys. But with him in the lineup, we are more quicker and athletic.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2005 11:11:05 GMT -5
1 - West
2 - Davis
3 - Green
4 - Jefferson
5 - Perkins
Bench:
Allen
Reed
Gomes
Lafrentz
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Post by Celtic17 on Jul 13, 2005 16:15:23 GMT -5
1 - West 2 - Davis 3 - Green 4 - Jefferson 5 - Perkins Bench: Allen Reed Gomes Lafrentz I like the fact that you are looking at this season JHVOS. I was looking too far ahead.  |
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Post by Celtic17 on Jul 13, 2005 16:17:01 GMT -5
I forgot OGreene at PG, in the future.
I could see him fitting in to the rotation.
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Post by meltinjohn on Jul 13, 2005 21:24:42 GMT -5
The shooting guard glut is the reason this team needs to be in the lottery between next year and the year after. Whether its our pick, the lakers or cavs also. A pf/c can be brought in also if there isnt a true center out there who can be a star. I would like this team to have a true pf with some kind of ft jump shot like how Dino Radja was and move Al J to center. With Shaq retiring soon, it sure won't be a problem. Also the pg position. This draft may have been pg deep but Danny took the best player available in Green so that made this sg glut deeper.
Lottery is where Danny will get a good pg or pf.
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Post by Roadrunner on Jul 13, 2005 23:33:01 GMT -5
I would like Doc to play AJ at the center, experimental.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jul 13, 2005 23:47:13 GMT -5
There's only a glut if we arelooking to hold onto Pierce for the long haul. If he is staying beyond his current contract, we certainly have too many potetially solid wing players (not including Gomes and Reed). With Pierce, Green, Ricky, Allen, and Delonte (who will get some playing time at SG), Tony Allen will probably be the odd man out when Rivers is distributing minutes. And this is counter-productive because of the small things he brings to the court. He's shown in his rookie year that he can make things happen when there is nothing there to happen. He can create offense off of defensive turnovers and he can create offense with his slashing. And he can be an individual scorer if need be. IMO, Allen is starting material.
Ricky Davis is a bonafide 6th man and I do not want to move him from this role. He's valuable in that spot because he can be counted on to provide consistent scoring, usually in the very first few possessions he's on the court. He's like a pitbull who's locked up behind bars, just waiting to be let loose. And once Ricky is let loose, he can't wait to get in the scoring column. Its almost instantaneously. And the energy and the swagger/attitude he brings in is contageous.
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Post by freshnthehouse on Jul 14, 2005 0:06:19 GMT -5
And for the bizillionth time, I will cast my vote for 'no' when it comes to playing AlJ at the 5. he is obviously better suited for the 4. Ne is not a real strong guy, upper body at least. I just think we should be happy with him at the 4 and find are real center for the middle. I hope its Perk(who is built like a 6'10" center) but if not, we'll have to look elsewhere.
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Post by DERRENMATTS on Jul 14, 2005 0:44:01 GMT -5
So Fresh, what do you think of playing Jefferson at Center?
;D
Ideally, that's where he'll play for his career. But I am sure that he can make the transition to Center if he is asked. The Center position is not played the same as the way our fathers knew. Its a totally sporatic position in the current state of the game of basketball. You now have 7 footers who can dribble the ball like guards and shoot three's. And you have 6'8" guys who play Center (Amare Stoudemire).
As for my vote, I cast it for Jefferson to stay put at PF.
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Post by eja117 on Jul 14, 2005 12:47:03 GMT -5
i can't believe the center position has become so deemphasized. A dominant center can win you the game ever time. Shaq, Ben W, TD all change the game from that position. There is so much you can do from there. If a young healthy Bill Walton was playing today or maybe Kareem they would destroy everyone. Wilt and Bill Russel would probably be made into 3s or 4s which is just silly.
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